Networks isnt going to be intimidated to a blow to the United States to give up on that. Weve already seen when we look at the iran policy that the trumpet ministration with substantially and ill use the word blackmailing european cars automotive producers to put a tax tariff on their cars if they dont toe the line i mean jonathan says you know theyre there theyre bucking the trend but i mean it gets kind of leads into where i want to go in the rest of the program is that you know the u. S. Still has not so many levers and coercive levers against europe that they dont toe the line go ahead in london. Thank you thank you for mentioning this thank you for the previous time as you mentioned china because as we know it was not about russia it was about the china we know the. Realistic Foreign Policy thinkers in the United States including john meshaal em out. It was present in 2015 my very own university in poland you know you dont university told us about this very moment that we have arrived where the Union European countries and china. In one bed when it comes to trade and investment so it will cause a frictions we know that as we look at the democrats on both sides democrats and republicans the prime goal for the United States to contain china and china is the number one. Structured object it will start to. Somehow. Problem for the United States and as. Told to the audience in my alma mater the university is russia will become part of balancing coalition so i dont understand why the United States is somehow. Both china and russia but in my opinion it might cause slightly different effect same as with sanctions on russia for the ukrainian crisis which was according to john. Very famous or a realistic thinker course on the side of the. On the west not. I mean you could also throw in these a antagonizing russia and china but mark antagonizing europe is well ok that thats my point right here here here and this is in this is why im doing this program because i think the transatlantic experience is being seriously tested here because i would make the argument at least 100 trump they are more interested in trade there are interested in Europe Energy policy and you know ok you have to buy all these arms because you know theyre theyre important to american politics but they dont see it as a Security Threat this is this is a. Again bit for resources and denying trade to others this is what this is about and europe is being tested here go ahead mark you know i think if we can historically really from the Marshall Plan and post war 2nd world war policy towards western europe the United States had to deal with the european allies that in many ways who are now would do well economically if they towed the political line and so there was a cost benefit to both sides now trump and pompei are basically saying to the europeans you got to pay up profiting and theres no more free rides but want to say there are no more free rides people have to ask themselves what are the costs of eating normally what do we get more and what do we get for that exactly whats that return for them. If they are jumping and so go ahead at some point if youre going to tell you im sure that all the panelists have noticed that europe is divided between all europe and new europe and when i write an article for forbes 1017. 00 addressing this issue it is to cause down to the pipeline and the revenge and the revenge a sentiment in the eastern part of europe which was somehow colonized by disorder union and as we can see german french and other western nations are reluctant to previous commentators rightly said to participate in that because they are realistically assessing the cost of this participation of oil and also the moral cost of participating in. The iraq war but eastern European Countries are driven by slightly different parameters and as i said when it comes to the north stream too we can see that the American Government of the American Administration is heavily subsidizing the pop pipeline invented by the polish government and in 2017 we know that the 1st transit of l. And g. Gas was delivered to show you know we shipped in more than poland. Board by the state owned oil and gas Company Called g m g so we know that trump displaying all your hopes in the United States you know draw your wedge between the old europe new year old and new europe is willing to spend more money on American Natural Gas than in russia and thats really logical in these times about staring jonathan i mean the crux of the whole thing is that the European Union are we can just say europe geographically cannot have a coherent trade in Foreign Policy if theyre not united and i cant see how theyre going to get united in light of what we just heard about the new europe go ahead jonathan you know not agree theres a new chance of unifying Foreign Policy in spite of the fact disposed to be wrong but i mean i think we have to look to have microns been sort of to some extent because micros the only current leader of a major country in europe has the courage to say we need dialogue with russia russia is part of our geography russia is part of our history we have to have good relations with russia and hes trying to find some kind of independent Foreign Policy initiatives to bring russia into the picture and sanctions on russia because of ukraine and so true and defies the United States or my corneas the great right term i think for the European Union efforts to create more independence and more even i would say resistance to the United States well its interesting market now that were on the crown that seems to me that he was he ways emulating the goal essentially thats what he wants to do goal is that his return to france but will it work and or this guy go ahead and. Work out i think to some extent its opportunistic but then thats the reality of all politics any successful politician moves with the time seems which way forces are going and recognizes that his domestic difficulties means that he has to in a sense distance himself from being seen as a classic globalist and list reorientation french Foreign Policy which has economic benefits would also perhaps help. In his reelection bid so theres a rational self interest the really interesting case is going to be britain i think because with britain leaving the is britain going to become completely reorientated towards the anglosphere and become even closer to the United States its been already or there are reports obviously that Boris Johnson had a row with dont want all trump over huawei there are further reports that maybe the chinese will be invited to save our ridiculous expensive high speed rail way project because at least they will build it in 5 years or older than 25 years and so were beginning to see even between the british and americans or certain divisions between our natural tendency to be politically aligned and the economic interests which are increasingly diverging and including not least the economic benefits of trade with china which were china is not perceived as a threat to britain in the way that the United States sees around the pacific rim china is a threat to its traditional role in that whole region ok jonathan 30 seconds people ready to go to the break can they be the compromising middle europe when it comes to china and the United States go ahead im going to should certainly try and not sure how successful they can be british and certainly track these are the new spirit of can have good relations with russia china and the United States well together. Well the interesting question is to be an honest broker i mean on the one hand i think thats what we would all like and that certainly would be in europes interest but you would have. Probably both the United States and china at the same time it seems like a lose lose situation and well discuss that more in the 2nd half of the program were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on the Atlantic Alliance stayed with. I cant show you my face but im going to teach you must. In 9093 this was sentenced to death. Charged with capital murder even though he didnt have the gun didnt pull the trigger didnt intend to kill anybody imagine living in your bathroom for that week with just under 23. I doubt that. You have. Confined within 4 gray walls. Using. Believed in this room. Its a let me. Ask i would. Take i. Did not. Want to. Lose. Time to make that a c. Because the loosely. Defined what they were the kook on the standards of the law now as you. Know most of the. I knew of those 2 moons. To the sinister learned one thing for not. To use in the new. Project. The new one on the meteor house on the lam classroom. In this community there are people who believe that its ok. Its really hard there are no jobs and you see the kids that ask and as a pair. I can come up with an argument theres a lot of conflict in the game between the teams most of the conflict i would say the balls around them most of their money is made. Clothes worn on the childrens clothes seen on each other is Good Business the state of california alone makes 6000000000. 00 a year of the prison complex just to get some point in your life where. You dont care and cares about you so you dont care about anything. Welcome across the uk where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing the Atlantic Alliance. Because i could really in london you know i find it was a few months ago i found it. Amusing that the New York Times would write an editorial that trump probably should consider improving relations with russia which you know after all weve been through with this ridiculous hoax and the demonization of anyone that has you know if you have russian. Salad sauce you know youre suspect somehow. Making light of something that is very serious here but you know you having some you know the New York Times saying you know maybe trump should consider doing that because of the embrace with china i mean this has been going on for years now that that horse has left the barn i mean i find it astounding that the political establishment is saying well maybe we should reconsider i mean decisions have already been made and the reason why im mentioning that because europe is going to have to make that decision its because its so to divide it internally its never going to be able to sit down and choose one side of the other and i think its going to be the net loser in all of this here but going back to some of the things that you know as mark was saying you know with the way history holds europe back when i look at the baltic republics and poland and all that when the future is screaming forward at you at high speed and i think europe is going to be left to the side because that really is the United States china with the chinese. Russian lions and it is an alliance now go ahead and rail in london well i totally agree with you peter this is even from the geopolitical political point of view the real realists in in europe know the sea powers like britain and United States have slightly different interests when it comes to. The future or the well being of the land powers including hands europe china and russia but we have to bear in mind that european peons were quite reluctant and lazy after the 2nd world war in you know taking their own matters in their own hands they somehow took the back seat and they were silent observers all for what their leader in the western hemisphere read United States is doing regardless where the. Morally justified or not but somehow now they they see the young generations are quite displeased with the deadline the leader in the western hemisphere hemisphere is showing to also we have to bear in mind that Everyone Wants to participate in the great revolution that no logical revolution and. Historically we know that china never attacked europe so so why we should be afraid of them why the United States is putting so much emphasis on you know blocking who are away from entering the European Market market why do offering to subsidize their european competitors read nokia and ericsson it is not a friend or a strictly business no its not strictly business because you know its the im watching wants to determine who has a back door into everyones computer in europe thats what they want they know theyre afraid of chinese spy no they want to do the spying themselves ok because you know you. Trust us you can trust those to spy on you not those chinese i mean it is so ridiculous and so and so hypocritical here mark i want you already mentioned something i think is really interesting with breaks that how does this the Atlantic Alliance as weve known it over the decades how does that change because i think you could see you could see europe being alienated by the u. K. If it gets too much into bed with washington and it doesnt matter if trump is president i think people put way too much into that historical trends that are happening its not that doesnt matter but particularly who is in the white house go ahead mark. No in fact ironically trump in the white house pushes parts of the British Government to form still be closer to the European ParliamentUnited States one could imagine a new american president who follow broad Foreign Policy consensus with trump has actually as hes always pointed out been tougher on russia tougher on china than his predecessors and so in a sense he set a precedent that will be followed which is indorsed by the Foreign Policy establishment in the states see any area of his policy they support the problem for the british would be that it is awful likely that theyre going to be asked to pay an economic price for what in many ways comes culturally and for historical reasons if not for the churchillian romanticism of the transatlantic relationship comes naturally to us and so i think it is likely to be the case that these trends inside continental you countries particularly the west european powers of the to seek to have a more sensitive european centered policy not least because with britain they dont have to pay more for these things the french the germans the dutch and so on will have to pick up the slack so youre going to get a consequence the that in practice will be tensions inside or between the east european states that are overly concerned by hostile for historical reasons to russia and also supported by u. S. Policy and then these countries which really are all the economic heart and the taxpaying heart the e. U. That will be much more talked about those polls here i mean big cities. Youve already mentioned and i mean i mean people you know i agree i mean part of the cold war settlement you know that europeans would get great trade deals with the United States true and i understand why trump wants to for the perfect sense there ok but what you get who gets what for what is the question right here and i dont think polities in the powerhouses if you as you put it i dont think they they really have an incentive to spend more why where is the threat who is threatening us i mean of course the you know the phobia. In the u. S. And the u. K. Who are well known well known but i dont see in times of austerity what you want to disable or the major keep going yeah the major Security Threats of course come from come from north africa come from the chaos in libya that we helped to cornells so and so that sense if you will the average french or italian citizen or more danger of being killed by weaponry and bombs coming. Liberated intervention states where we call scale so that you are from russia or china and that is a big problem in Public Perception we dont the average person doesnt see what the think tanks see as the sort you know jonathan that jonathan i think one of the interesting things here is that the United States and the Atlantic Alliance that they have gotten so used to having such a heavy damage and having had gemini for the last 7 decades that they dont understand how to reimagine the world that they dont have it and i think it is the lack of imagination and how the world is changing and i think it terrifies them i mean the new cold war which i just look at the rhetoric they go back to the same rhetoric we need to have a cold war we need to have an enemy and the world this evolving so quickly why do you necessarily have to have an i mean we have to we could look at the extent you are talking. About the United States going to europeans and european governments feeling want to come to war with china theres been a very a rift between us and europe on that one word is me i mean having spoken in the 1st part of the program of our macro during the right thing hes doing the right thing because in the wrong methodology hes still talking about powerful studied using military power