Hello and welcome to cross out were all things to consider im people about president Vladimir Putin in his own words tells us how he understands history and the Current International system also why everybody apparently hates john bolton as he laughs all the way to the bank. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest George Samuel liam would have as he is author of bombs for peace natos humanitarian war on your was lobbying and in london we crossed to alexander me curacy is a writer on Legal Affairs as well as editor in chief duran are joining cross up rules in effect that means in germany combine rounds were going to how its 1st in london for those of us that are very interested in whats going on in the International System obviously read the article the Vladimir Putin has abolished in the National Interest it was titled let me approach and the real reasons of the 75th anniversary of world war 2 why did you write it and what is its importance now that the 1st reason he wrote it is because its the sentence he sets out its necessary it stops a certain world all the sort of the victory i should say well which russia is about celebrate so its timely but of course its also telling really because its to reste firstly these attacks the top taking place in the west and in some countries in eastern and Central Europe on the sets it mainstream understanding of the starts of that all the all reach its. 2nd will these attempts to plague russia with nazi germany as the region of the 2nd will was used strongly wishes to refute under 2nd because i think hes very concerned the Current International developments and he wants to draw parallels between what happened before the 2nd well and what is happening now in other words the collapse of the International System which he feels was unsustainable before the 2nd well and hes very unsustainable so. Thats really extremely well said you know george the the article is its a very long and extremely detailed and my 1st reaction is this is a historical document all by itself it was only published a few days ago the parallels of the the 1930 s. And what we have right now in the International Order is is following a part fragmenting and this is one of the it is the primary reason other than nazi aggression started the 2nd world war in europe and i think the parallels are really quite me have the United States using sanctions as a political weapon we we have constant pressure being brought against iran against and has whale but has no basis in International Law and this and this is a very appropriate one and id like to point out to you that the United States is walking away from the entire. Spectrum of arms control agreements i think this is very dangerous as well go ahead jump and. Yes youre absolutely right peter. And the sanctions regime that the United States has in particular are imposed against russia which is a very very Serious Business and that both the democrats and republicans want to tighten you know you know as a as moving forward so whoever wins this election will want to impose some kind of sanctions some kind of penalties pressure the obsession obsessive hatred of russia and now that prevails in london and in washington is a very Serious Business and i think that. This is one of the issues that the putin is the point being out that this this really it does get into a very dangerous situation so what hes saying is that. This dangerous situation is part and parcel and that as alexander pointed out with this revisionist view of world war 2. According to which the nazis and the soviets jointly launched it and this was a European Parliament resolution this isnt something he story the story in quite just the pontificating way this is a recent resolution of the European Parliament joint aggression by the soviet and he was pointing out you know important facts to keep in mind and he said no that wasnt right was in september like in 39 no one no one stopped england and france from invading joe mckinney why joe he was preoccupied with paul and it was a nonaggression pact no one stopped you didnt do anything so you could use the blaming the soviet union for that so hes pointing this out and saying this is bottom ponselle of this. Or this most of the worlds this over you know and then he moves on into the 2nd part of the article which is. Like this restore the. Post world war 2 or the. Hes used as the basis of it the permanent 5 members of the Security Council so you know those were those are the days when there was the ability in the world and they went to see this is where we need to be moving now you know alex and also i mean if we can just look at present day politics we see the fragmentation in the weakening and the lack of mission of nato and im not i think this is one of the reasons why theyre changing this narrative because nato needs to have an enemy to justify its own existence and you know and we have poll after poll deeply in germany where the german public wants americans to leave 75 years after the fact they want them to start rebuilding but of course this is a switching major we have the neo cons and entire political bipartisan consensus in Washington Well lets move them to poland which would be in violation of riemanns ending the cold war but again they just want International Law and that is really the basis of the article that a top about is the foundations of International Law it fell apart it fell apart before the 2nd world war and that is a wave of the footsteps of france and britain ok not the soviet union absolutely can i just point out that this idea of the city union and nazi germany being allergists to start the 2nd will get east a fringe theory in Academic Circles it is a fringe there are some people in the police it or wells are adults it amongst academics it remains a fringe mary who is expressing what is still very much overwhelmingly the academic consensus but the parallels he has joint goals are and theyre very interesting is that after the 1st woman in the lead up to the eventual start of the 2nd world you see a extremely unfair. Stoutish invests is very interesting and hes attacking the 1st started as far as i know from a Russian Point you to the entire list. When johnny being essentially constantly elite by the allies leading to very very common consequences now hes not saying i think you know that russia has been put in exactly the same way but what hes pointing to is the fragility of a system in which theyre all green is self appointed when it see it as then mission to constantly be telkom lose and at such a system becomes deeply on balance and it becomes increasingly fragile and that way get things like nate continuing to this you a calling to all this you can say or an ending expansion of focusing all russia as aggressive states which hes not by the way and. Make tensions in europe and in the worlds which really have substantially cools because as correctly points out all the great powers would you come to get us a Security CouncilUnited Nations system it would be perfectly possible to result problems. You know toward one of the things i took away from the article again and i suggest our viewers have a read through because its absolutely fascinating is that be the issue of sovereignty and protecting ones own defined National Interests ok in the end and what i find really interesting is that because during the cold war it was it was an ideological comparable the cold war is over and so you want to bludgeon russia. Like it was the soviet union the soviet union has no ruling idea im sorry russia today has no ruling ideology ok so the parallels dont work anymore and so what putin is saying is that like the soviet union russia of today will defend its National Interest as it defines it its about sovereignty sure. Yes and this is a very important point that the russians and putin a lover of made over and over again which is the United Nations charter enshrines the principle of National Serenity and that there is an equality between all nations no matter how small that they are sovereign and that there is no right of any on anyones part to bully other smaller nations and to tell them how they should run their own this and so you know yes indeed hes pointing this out is this the kind of western regime change operations that has prevailed over the last few decades is the violations of United Nations charter and again it goes back to his point that. You know in 145 there was sensible leaders who created a you know for want of a better word new world order that respected National Sovereignty wrote the United Nations charter and created a balance of power system which was the United NationsSecurity Council that took into account the interests of the great powers which and then the head hence a failure of the league of nations which didnt do that theory as well as when hes insisting yeah we need to go back to that and at that time once the south was the leaders all of the western powers always acknowledged a that the sacrifices that the soviet union made will that they did the heavy lifting and that there was no symmetry between what the nazis this and what the u. S. S. R. This is and you know now i said this georgian i would accuse the u. S. S. R. Be in aggressor rosalie with the. And it had nothing to do with ideology if you look at the foundations of of the United Nations it didnt point out that it didnt focus on ideology it looked at the existence of sovereign states and how they would be as actors on the International Stage alex let me go back to you and initial on this point one of the things i think is also interesting about the article is the the rule of law in International Institutions and we you get this route this revision is theory that revisionist history thats coming out is it is sidestepping it wants to avoid these or even dissolve these institutions and and that is a political agenda and its an intended towards a gemini i would say what asininity this what what the agenda me is is that you say that certain western palace where the ones that seem to hand at fulton won the 2nd world war you dentist gus the soviet union smelt a full which is what mike baird it you say that the soviets and the germans would pass on possible the same evil a law against the gas so you dandle adze completely deconstruct the International System as it was creates it after the 2nd. And you know you cant palla morally vice setting out through this get twisted version of history you know really in palo a small number of states dictates against the rest which is the old i mean the day its a sea of olives and a statement by saying no bird to signaling its come to the history of the 2nd world war all right gentlemen im going to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion and some real news. We go to work you straight home. Is youll be via reflection of reality. In the world transformed. What will make you feel safe from. Tyson nation full community. Are you going the right way or are you being lead so. Direct. What is truth what is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or a maybe in the shallows. Nuclear become a battleground in the us in vermont people are demanding the shutdown of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because its a very dangerous oh no claire power plant the owner is attempting to run the riata beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on wheres the power in this country wheres it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy as are powerline with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in very real ways our struggle on r. T. Welcome to cross uk where all these are considered im peter about remind you were discussing some real. Ok let me go back to george and budapest well john bolton has put himself in the news actually but you very much liked and i really like an article that came kind of with the oh everybody in washington hates john bolton and this of republicans say hes disgruntled while democrats think hes just trying to sell books and trump calls him a sick puppy or he still laughing all the banco there is a bit of a trap be up there and its questionable right now hes going to be able to earn that order to the profits from this book that why anyone would read is a mystery to me go ahead george. Yes there is a county yet it could be that bolton will be tied up in the courts because the judge suggested. That bolton did in fact review classified information and didnt really go through all the proper vetting procedures of the white house so there are there are grounds for. Ministrations lawsuit against bolton so that so thats a problem for him. The conventional wisdom is that oh this wont affect anyone. Voting habits because those who hate trump will vote against from those like trump will vote for trump i think do think that this does damage trump because trump hyun bold no one forced him to do it and when he hired him there were many people you know what the hell is he doing you think youre doing all 3 of us and. If anyone opposes the agenda that trump ran on in 2016 its john bolton and of course as soon as bolton arrived in the white house he needless other pursuing his agenda regime change war against everyone. You know it israel 1st everything that would extend no peace on the Korean Peninsula you know thats right exactly so this really does raise questions of very serious questions about trumps judgment and that goes extends to all of his appointments he never ever when hes going to walk away from him full of hatred for him well of course they were because they all hated his agenda but hes the one who opposed them you never opposed it he never appointed anyone who would actually believe in his agenda and would try to implement his agenda so he does it is down to trump and his judgment yet you know and thats one of the things i find interesting that the boltons behavior you know urse around in his book and get. Doing it to the public its very much his style of breaking the rules flaunting the laws if when he did it as a Foreign Policy adviser during his long and checkered career hes doing in his own personal life the rules dont apply to me thats when it gets down to you and thats you and thats what you can disarm him so him that way his Foreign Policy is and we do what we want to do and everyone else has the follow International Law because we dont he is truly an exceptional person out of the is a man with and one of the people who doesnt like him is the john should the case made it very clear that he disapproves strongly of mr bolton to precisely that race but that does need a consistent perhaps an oboe since korea hes an extraordinarily good tool bureaucratic in fights at east sats many will in many places in International Institutions at the head of the International AtomicEnergy Commission the head of the el organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons all sorts of many places of polands fall of john bolton a few about a year ago it was rate on the north Korean Embassy and i think saying portugal and bolton was widely tipped on that egil cultural sea just was not only to secure our viewers know that that was when trump was going to meet with king. Just to sabotage that we dont have the evidence but its a very interesting coincidence that i think we would all agree here you know you george whats really interesting is how bolton is playing his cards because now hes the darling of the resistance and it just shows how the the political political thinking is to short circuit short circuited itself because bolton is one of them is one of the most agreed. Its neocons out there and now you have the left in bracing him only because hes taking a swipe at the big bad orange man in the white house i mean that it shows an enormous amount of a lack of. Intellectual and moral integrity i would say go ahead. Well because theres a lack of integrity but it is ironic that leave liberal democrat media complex is actually now has embraced the bolt on the agenda. They have had though they hatred for putin and russia that bolton espouse us thats right actually the democrats media consensus hatred towards china thats also pretty much i mean this biden is attacking trump for being too soft on china for cow traveling to china so again bolton is not outside the consensus there. A korea he trumpets been repeatedly attacked for what has been actually a sensible policy at the end it into a secret process known with north korea and denuclearization of the korean bill is your trump has been repeatedly attacked by the democrats on that so you know he the bold agenda is actually the socalled liberal media agenda it is a really surprising that you know they say yeah it is right you know that but you know there is there is trump you know couch im going to the dictator. You know its interesting going back to the title in politico alex everyone in washington hates john bolton but everybo