Advertisement Sam Sanders’ NPR show is a low-key program that isn’t aiming for the prestige podcast pocket, so in a way, it’s the perfect counterprogramming to Reply All’s “Test Kitchen” series on the so-called racial reckoning at Bon Appétit (a series that was, ironically, canceled halfway through its run after Reply All itself faced a similar reckoning). In this episode, Sohla El-Waylly, former BA chef and now the star of Off-Script With Sohla, speaks candidly with Sanders about her decision to resign from BA last summer, insisting that her actions have not led to real change, just real conversation, which is only the tip of the iceberg. “Don’t put a lot of pressure on yourself to try and change something that’s been a problem for hundreds of years,” Sohla advises. Instead, “fight for one story at a time” and make a difference on an individual level. Sanders, meanwhile, speaks to the “crazy-making” that can result from achieving career success as a person of color, not knowing “if you’re being undervalued just because you’re a person of color, or if you’re being tokenized… and given