And this is real money. This is real money. You are the most important part of the show. Join our live conversation for the next half houral ali velshi on twitter. Im here in phoenix, the e epicenter of the immigration debate in the country. States like energy, new jersey, california has even larger immigrant population. Mexicans are the Biggest Community of immigrants in the United States by a long shot making up close to onethird of the total foreignborn population in this country. As you can see there is a huge gap between mexico and the rest of the pack. Americas foreign born population reached 40 Million People in 2011. 11 million are believed to be undocumented. The debate over u. S. Immigration reform basically breaks down into two camps. Those who want to give the undocumented immigrants some sort of legal status, and those who prefer to ship them back home. Unfortunately the focus on undocumented workers or Border Security detracts from a deeper discussion about the economics of immigration. There is a debate on how to best recruit talent from the rest of the world and keep it here so america keeps its competitive edge. High Tech Industries rely on highly educated, highly skilled immigrants and foreignskilled workers to do that. 1,900,000 students studied in the United States at colleges and university, thats 3. 9 of the total students. But it put restrictions on those who were allowed to stay and work in this country. Silicon valley executives wish that this immigrant pool could be separated in the current debate so that it would be easier for congress to raise the quota of work visas that Tech Companies apply for. That, however, is wishful thinking. The Senate Passed a bill for comprehensive Immigration Reform but its stuck in limbo in the house and Immigration Reform in this country is needed. Here in arizona and around the country no one can agree how its done. Immigrants will get green cards giving them the right to live and work in the country permanently. More than twothirds obtain these cards because theyre married or another family relationship. There is another one that says wealthy people can buy their way into america. It requires an investment of 500,000 in a business the government hopes will create jobs. While its growing in popularity the program has its criticked. Vasojoined his partners in brooklyn to break ground on their development Barclays Center in atlantic yards. The project was funded in small part through the eb5 visa investment program. It allows people to come and participate in one of the exciting developments in our country. Reporter this helped to fuel the program. For half a Million Dollars wealthy foreign nationals can fast track the process for a twoyear visa in exchange for government approved projects. It becomes permanent if they can create ten u. S. Jobs. Permanent eb5 green cards are granted 95 of the time. Foreign nationals are interested in eb5 for a number of reasons. The chinese are concerned about political upheaval and education. Education is paramount. So the chinese will often just get the green card simply as an insurance factor. Reporter the u. S. Citizens and Immigration Services issued 800 eb5 visas in 2007. That number skyrocketed to 6600 in 2012, with 76 going to chinese investors. The remaining visas were spread among immigrants from south korea, taiwan, the United Kingdom and hong kong. It allows wealthy initials to by pass the pace. They say if you get your green card, you get your 500 back. Good enough. Its tremendously attractive. Im talking about high cost say of 11 , 12 . Eb5 coming in at 0 or 1 . Reporter a broadway theater, even major hollywood studios. These are just a handful of businesses vying for the eb cash for loans. The detailed data is scarce. One of the problems with the problems with the program we dont have a lot of information of how it works. We do have a lot of on the failures including fraud and corruption. Reporter investors may not be the only ones at risk. Charles grassley fired out a letter to the department of homeland security. His concern, terrorists. Citing internal immigration memo, two eb5 participants were, quote, involved in an illegal Procurement Network exports items to iran for use by secret iranian government agencies. Homeland security offered no public response, but in a report released in december the department was highly critical of the eb 5 programs operation. But despite the risk its only growing with 700,000 applications pending. Immigration reform would have implications for millions of people who want to live and work in the United States. Dennis hoffman said the benefits of that reform would far outstrip the costs. He said it could loosen restrictions on the workforce and be good for business and promote Economic Growth here in arizona and elsewhere in the country. Dennis is a professor of economics at Arizona State university. Good to have you here. Thank you so much. Great to be here, and thank you for coming to phoenix. It is the epicenter of this discussion around Immigration Reform, and i think if you found people on both sides of the issue, they would all agree that we need reform. Im an arizonan, it means a big deal to me, arizona. Ive seen what lowskill, mediumskilled, hiskilled immigrants can do to the economies. The arizona economy was beneficiary of tremendous injection of labor over the years that right now is not legal. Its never been legal, per se but were endorsing workers laws. If you didnt enforce that, or for instance, lets say that many politicians call the pathway to citizenship, and these undocumented workers became documented workers, wouldnt that just put more people into the workforce and make the workforce tougher for everybody . What we found historically in arizona, ali, is that our immigrant workforce are some of the most productive contributing individuals in the entire labor force. People have moved here from all over the country. They start businesses. Many of the businesses are comprised of immigrant labor. The economy was vibrant. You saw a change in december 2007 when arizona passed the toughest employer sanctions law in the nation. This began in december of 2007. We have 150,000 fewer workers in this state than we did back then. Seven years down the road. Thats good for other unemployed workers. Reporter you think arizonas economy is good in anyway, shape or form right now . Heres the problem with that argument, having access to those workers, having those workers contribute to our economy in productive ways creates opportunities for all of us. What about those immigrants that left homes and they did in 08, and 09. They left productive jobs. They were contribute to go society. They were buying products. Where did they go . Places like texas. Look at texas. What is the texas miracle . A lot of immigrants and lowpaying jobs. Its those workers. But its everything. It is a very diverse committee. To characterize texas just as low pay is inappropriate. Its a diverse economy, and its enabled a very progressive attitude towards immigrant labor. Youve set it up nicely for us. Well continue this discussion for much of the year. Great to have you. Great to be here. Well, legally you cant hire an undocumented employer as dennis just told us, but they could easily hire you. Many job seekers, as he said, have become job create necessary america. When i decide to do the business coming to the business, i knew the risks. I knew the problems. More on these undocumented entrepreneurs coming up. Later, without immigrants in america wed all pay the price. Ill tell you one very specific way it will cost your family more. That and more as real moneys special continues in phoenix. Keep it right here. Weve all heard harrowing stories of immigrants who risk their lives for a shot in america. But its quite another thing to experience it firsthand. Thats what a new original series on al Jazeera America. Thats what sets it apart for the rest. In border land average americans are confronted with the realities of immigration into this country. They retrace the steps of border runners who took that risk and paid for it with their lives. Heres a preview. Since the mid 80s spending on border enforcement has risenned to 10 billion today. In that same period the number of Border Agents went from less than 3,000 to 20,000. In the third of the 2,000mile border has been fortified. The plan was simply put was to reroute the traffic and crossing on the southwest border from the Populated Areas to the nonPopulated Areas. This is part of that nonpopulated area. So they detoured this illegal activity into our backyard. They have put the fence up directly behind me which runs about 40, 50 miles. If you look to my left where the shadow ends, it goes up to the mountain. Thats where it ends. The fence just ends . Yes. Heres a certain absurdity for having it this way where you simply end it. If youre going to do t do it all the way. From there you have a fence that any can just climb over it. Border land m premier premieres sun at 9 00 p. M. Eastern and 7 00 pacific right here on al Jazeera America. Its worth watching. The Immigration Reform act makes it illegal to employ an undocumented workers. But it does not prevent an illegal immigrant were owning an business. And in some cases they employ u. S. Citizens. We look at this growing sector of the growing economy. [ music ] at a mara and her family own a bakery in northern philadelphia. Theyre also undocumented immigrants. They came when tamara was 15. They decided to start their own business in 2009. It was just make sense for our own security and Economic Security just to have our own business even though we didnt know along the way what would happen because of deportation. A fraction of every dollar the bakery earns they pay state and federal taxes. The department of health certifies it. The business is legal in every way even though all of its owners is not. Its hard to say how many u. S. Businesses are owned by the roughly 12 million undocumented people currently living in america. Business owners dont need to declare the stats, but one proffer in Southern California estimated 8 to 10 of the undocumented are legal entrepreneurs. If true that means they own hundreds of thousands of u. S. Businesses. Immigration lawyer said its actually quite common in philadelphia. A lot of my clients are business owners. Its mostly common in restaurant and Convenience Stores and Corner Stores but also construction and contracting work. Reporter becoming American Business owners using a birth certificate or foreign i. D. An immigrant can apply for individual payer Identification Number or itin for short. With the itin in hand he can apply for an employer Identification Number. Section 7b asks for an Social Security number or, and this is how its possible, an itin number. The Internal Revenue service considers him the owner of a legal u. S. Business and the u. S. Government can still deport him at any time. Thats what happens to luis jimenez. He owns a restaurant in south philadelphia. Hes not related to tamara. Jimenez ended up being arrested immigration officials got involved and he faced deportation. How did you fine the strength to continue working the base when so much was on the line. When i decided to do the business coming to the business, i knew the risks. Her lawyer said the immigration judge used his discretion to put luis case on hold because he pays taxes, runs his business by the letter of the law, and ears u. S hiresu. S. Citizens. We showed that it was a successful business and people like it. Reporter his cook something praisecooking ispraised. But tamara was worried. She was one of the young people who were granted to live in the u. S. For two years and the Program Deferred action but not her parents. If my mother gets deported, it would just crush me. I would be defe be devastated. Reporter tamara has become a spokesperson against deportati deportation. You might say immigration doesnt effect you, think again. If your family depends on fruits, vegetables, milk from the Grocery Store every week, you got a stake in this debate. Ill explain why when real money comes back. Al Jazeera America presents a global finacial powerhouse the Roman Catholic church, they have an enormous amount of power accusations of corruption. There is a portion of the budget that takes care of all the clerical abuse issues. Now we follow the money and take you inside the vaticans financial empire. When it comes to money, this is one of the sloppiest organizations on earth. Al Jazeera America ve American Farms hire more than a million laborers every year who do everything from picking crops to operating machinery. It is hard physical work. Often done in tough conditions and requiring a very skilled hand. Many of americas 2. 2 million farms depend on undocumented workers to stay alive. If those workers werent there economists would pay more for labor and American Consumers would pay more for groceries. From fields of corn to orchards, the exact number is difficult to come by and so is the cost of farmers and consumers should those workers disappear. The American FarmBureau Federations study to look at that scenario. The economist asks the question what would happen if immigration happened. The tally cost to the agriculture industry 60 billion over five years. With Fruit Production dropping as much as 61 and Vegetable Production declining by as much as 31 . It projects food prices would rise 5 to 6 with Farmers Limited with how much of the cost they could pass on to consumers. The results would be smaller supplies and higher imports. There would an worker shortage, and so there would be an attempt on the farmer to find a new source of labor. It would an higher priced source of labor pushing up the price of food. Field workers earn 11. 38 an hour, many of those jobs are seasonal. Compare that to a construction worker, another physically demanding job. The average hourly wage is 21. 61. To hear farmers tell it theyre having difficulty finding americans who want farm jobs and question whether higher wage was attract workers particularly on dairy farms. One economist who worked on a 2009 study commissioned by the milk Producers Federation found that milk prices could spike 60 if undocumented workers suddenly left the workforce. If we took out our milk production was no longer there because the employees werent there to do the work. A gallon of milk, thats 6. 40 price of milk if those supplies arent there. Reporter importing milk would be far more expensive than fruits and vegetables. Whether its dairy or crops, American Farmers make no secret of the fact that they depend on a workforce from across the border to keep the domestic food supply affordable. Mary snow, al jazeera. Among those farmers relying almost entirely on the labor of Migrant Workers. Migrant workers doesnt mean undocumented workers. He employed 20 people at thinks fruit orchards in pennsylvania. About 130 west of philadelphia. Most of those Migrant Workers travel to and from mexico and he pays them 8. 50 to pulling weeds to as much as . 18 a dollars 18 an hour for picking apples. You dont knowingly hire undocumented workers, is that the case . That is true. Who do you think these people are, and why do you think they come from far and abroad . Why do you not have workers from neighboring townships and counts who are picking weeds and bagging apples . Im not sure why we cant get any localscant seem to get any locals to do this work. Our experience has been in the past when weve hired some locals, theyve not lasted very long, a day or two. Its just too physically demanding for them, i think. You the impression here is that you know these people come, i guess you get other workers when some fall out through the people you know, who youve already hired. Why do you think theyre prepared to come up and do this work and then go back to wherever it is that they come from . Im not sure why. I have to assume its in the countries that they come from, they dont have the opportunities that are available here in america, and they need some way to feed their families. What would happen to you if they if tighter controls were imposed upon you in hiring Migrant Workers . What would happen to your farm . Well, if we lost our workforce, im not sure what we would do. Tighter controls are hard t todepending on what those tighter controls are, its hard to say how they would effect us. We are certainly prepared to do whatever we need to do to secure a legal workforce. Weve been struggling for years to secure a legal workforce for american agriculture, and we cant seem to get congress and others to understand that thats what were after. There are some jobs on the farm youre paying very little money for but youre paying 14 to 18 an hour for labor hands on the farm. Have you heard from people that americans dont want to do this work because they can get more on