Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20170124 : vimarsana.com

Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20170124

On one side, dismay on the other. We have a parliamentary democracy. Today, the Supreme Court upheld that verdict, but it wasnt really clear whod won or lost. This judgment does not change the fact that the uk will leave the European Union, and its ourjob to deliver on the instruction the people of the uk have given us. Never has so much attention been given to a Supreme Court case of such enormous constitutional significance, but which may end up having no substantive effect. Well hear from alex salmond, on the path scotland will now take. And labours Emily Thornberry on the partys challenge of trying to appeal to both sides of the brexit debate. Also tonight, should Primary School Children Wear hijabs . We must not normalise it, instead of supporting that practice we should question it because what you are doing is sexualising that child. Donald trump invites the cameras into the oval office. Whats he got to say about the environment . We cant be in an environmental process for 15 years if a bridge is going to be falling down, or if a highway is crumbling. So were expediting environmental reviews and approvals. Thats what this is. Hello. If you thought the arguments over brexit would end after the referendum, sorry, its not over and the Supreme Court has invited the arguments to continue in the commons, and perhaps more crucially now, in the House Of Lords. Then theres scotland, the court didnt give the government there any power over brexit, but the snp are not going to accept theresa mays version of it quietly. Now its not clear who will actually have the muscle to actually block or delay brexit, and the bookies still think article 50 will probably be triggered before the end of march. But there is a chance it will get messy. Our policy editor chris cook is good at making sense of a mess heres how he thinks things might pan out. All rise. Its official. To invoke article 50, Downing Street will not need to consult the devolved governments, but will need to pass a bill through parliament. In broad terms, article 50 provides that a country wishing to leave the eu must give a notice in accordance with its own constitutional requirements. Right now, that doesnt look like a serious problem for ministers. The first stage then in the article 50 process is taking a bill into the house of commons. Now, the fundamental facts about the lower house of parliament is there is a conservative majority. They have got the votes. So yes, the snp and the Liberal Democrats might cause trouble for the government, but fundamentally they will not succeed. The only that people are really looking or hoping for from the lower house are really quite narrowly procedural. Here for example, is the Labour Position. Labour accepts and respects the Referendum Result and will not frustrate the process. But we will be seeking to allay amendments to ensure a proper scrutiny and accountability throughout the process. That starts, mr speaker, with a white paper or plan. The government hopes that the bill will be through the commons by February The 9th when it rises for its next recess. Then it is off to the House Of Lords which is where it is likely to have a tougher time. Remember, the government does not have a majority in the upper house. But any problems there are likely to take the form of unhelpful amendments and perhaps a bit of delay. Not outright blocking. On big items, the House Of Lords is often restrained by the fact that there was a commitment in a manifesto and by convention the House Of Lords does not oppose Manifesto Commitments. But this time, while there was a commitment to a referendum, there are certainly was not a commitment to take the uk out of the Single Market. So some members at least will see that as giving them licence to challenge the government. But ultimately the House Of Lords probably will not want to be seen to be frustrating the will of the british people as expressed in the Referendum Result last year. Now the government says that parliament will get another opportunity to vote on the deal that it gets from europe at the end of the process. But whether that is an opportunity for parliament to really scrutinise what is going on and suggest changes, depends on precisely when the government comes back for that vote. The draft deal has to come back before it has been signed because parliament can look at it and i dare say, that is fine, or it is mostly fine but this is not, can you go back and see if you can get Something Different or better on this. It is important it comes at that stage, rather than parliament being asked, Take It Or Leave it, at the 11th hour. I do not think that would be acceptable. Given our rulers have not been much been constrained, perhaps the biggest question today is, why they took this case to the Supreme Court at all. Well, the Scottish Government does not have and has not sought a veto over brexit. Thanks to the Supreme Court, we now know there is no requirement for a vote in the devolved parliaments or assemblies. But, the Scottish Parliament is going to have a vote anyway. Earlier i spoke to alex salmond, former first minister, snp Foreign Affairs spokesman. Today he has said Downing Street must treat the devolved administrations as equal partners in the brexit process, quote, as she promised to do. I asked where did theresa may make such a promise. What she and the tory party have said is that scotland is an equal partner within the United Kingdom. Actually, the phrase, not from theresa may, but from her predecessor was scotland should lead the United Kingdom, not leave the United Kingdom. But the phrase equal partnership has been used by the conservative party, that scotland is an equal partner within the United Kingdom. If youre an equal partner within the United Kingdom, then your views on something as substantial and far reaching as brexit deserve to be taken on account on an equal basis. It was one person, one vote in scotland as it was everywhere else in the country. A Scottish Person was equal to everywhere else. But scotland is a country, not a county, and the scottish nation voted decisively to stay within the European Union. But of course, it was theresa may who said explicitly, the week after she became Prime Minister, when she went to visit Nicola Sturgeon in scotland, she said she wanted an agreed position across the United Kingdom. You cant have an agreed position, unless youre prepared to consult people on an equal basis. She is consulting, but i dont think it was understood that the Scottish Administration would have equal say on an issue of Customs Union, immigration policy, Foreign Policy, International Treaties as the government of the United Kingdom, in which the people of scotland have a large shaping part, because they vote in uk general elections, obviously. The vote in favour of staying in the European Union was 62 . The vote in favour of the United Kingdom was 55 . Far more people in scotland by majority and percentage wanted to stay within europe as wanted to stay with the United Kingdom. As you will remember in 2014, one of the cardinal arguments of the no campaign, there were people arguing against independence, was that we would stay in europe if we voted against scottish independence. I know its ridiculous now. It looks absurd, but that was one of the key arguments of the no campaign. More to the point, of course, Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish First minister, stood on a Manifesto Commitment last year and was re elected on the basis that if scotland was dragged out of europe against the will of the scottish people, then the Scottish Parliament would have the right to call an Independence Referendum. That brings me to what is the big question for the snp today. Its got to be. The big question for the snp, why dont you just call a referendum . You are not going to learn anything between now and brexit. We know what the british governments policy on brexit is, it has been stated by theresa may as clearly as anything. We know that scotland is not going to remain in the Single Market, as the Scottish Government hopes, we know that britain is not even going to try and stay in the Single Market. What else do you need to trigger a referendum . Well lets go through the parliamentary process as far as the Single Market is concerned. The uk government are still to respond officially to the Scottish Governments Compromise Proposal that if england is determined to leave the Single Market, scotland could stay in the Single Market. There are Working Examples elsewhere in europe where this is the case. Why shouldnt that be considered as a reasonable proposal . If at the end of the day theresa may is not interested in staying in the Single Market, she is not interested in respecting the wishes of the people of scotland to stay within the Single Market, maintain jobs and investment, then of course if she flings down the gauntlet, i fully expect Nicola Sturgeon to pick it up. Well then we do expect a referendum, because she is not going to give you different status within the Single Market. There are all sorts of practical challenges and difficulties. The difficulty is. Let me just examine that point. That is not true. There is a Working Example in europe at the moment for a country which has a monetary and Customs Union with another country and one is in the Single Market and one isnt. That is lichtenstein and switzerland. If you intend to implement control of labour at the workplace for a Green Card System as theresa may does, there is no impediment to scotland being within the Single Market while england is not. It is a practical proposition. It of course has complexities, but anything about brexit has complexities and this is a practical proposition. You dismiss this. Why shouldnt the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Pay Attention to the wishes of the scottish people, the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government . I am i suppose curious as to why youre offering this rather complicated, and it would be complicated, settlement when there is a much more simple one facing you, which is to call a referendum and just let the scottish people decide. Is it the uk, is it the eu . What is it that the scottish people. Is it because the polls are against you . Right, ok, lets take these points in turn. There is nothing as complicated as the brexit process, believe me that will be complicated. There is already going to be we know special deals for northern ireland, for the channel islands, for gibraltar, perhaps even for the city of london, for the car industry in sunderland, and if there can be a special deal for the car industry in sunderland, then i think there might be a special deal for the nation of scotland. If the Prime Minister does not want to accede to any of these reasonable Compromise Proposals from Nicola Sturgeon, then as Nicola Sturgeon has rightly said, an Independence Referendum becomes very likely. And it will take place within the next two years. As for support for it, there have been 16 polls since the brexit vote in the United Kingdom. 15 of these polls have shown support at a higher level than the 45 recorded in september 2014. I have seen a poll that 62 of scottish people dont want another Independence Referendum. I saw that poll. The question was wanted a referendum in 2017. I would vote against a referendum this year, as indeed would Nicola Sturgeon. Nicola sturgeons proposition in these circumstances with a Compromise Proposal rejected is to have a referendum within the negotiating period of two years. Would you accept that if there is another referendum, that is it. That is best of 3. You cannot win on the best of 3 at that stage. If it is two nil, it is over and this time really it is over for 30, 50 years, it cannot come back again for decades . Well, let me say this. If the Prime Minister decides to ignore the substantial demand in the uk as a whole to stay in the Single Market place, if she then decides to ignore the wishes of scotland to maintain our 1000 year connection and history with europe as a european nation, in that context, if there is a referendum within the next two years, then the yes side will win. Alex salmond. Nice talking to you. Thanks. Pleasure. For some reason, it is labour that is perhaps struggling with the consequences of this Supreme Court verdict, as much as the government. If parliament is to vote, then labour has to make up its mind as to exactly what its position is and yet it has given a good impression of being in a muddle keen to support brexit as that was the result of the referendum, but also having lots of remain supporters it cant ignore. Its kind of stuck between ukip in some blue collar neighbourhoods, and the lib dems in university towns. Nick watt has been looking at where the parties stand. For the best part of three decades europe has cast a shadow over the conservative party. Now at the very moment many tories have been expecting a split of historic proportions, it is the labour party that is wrestling with this most troublesome of issues. The bulk of the conservative party accepts theresa mays timetable for triggering article 50 and her brexit blueprint. As for the labour party they are struggling to fashion a coherent response. Many labour mps are trying to work out how to adapt their pro eu views while representing constituencies that recorded high leave votes in the referendum. I campaigned passionately for remain and id lived and worked in brussels for years and i am marriage to someone from denmark and i am pro european with my heart and head but i am also a democrat. The referendum has overridden the way i would look at the european question and now we have to accept the reality of where we are, and pushed the government to secure the best possible deal for the british people. It was but half a generation ago that labours support for the eu was an electoral asset. Now the referendum has changed everything, presenting labour with a daunting challenge. Labour will never appeal to people fervently pro european and Die Hard Brexiteer is. It hurts to try to change the terms of the conversation and reach out to people who did not feel strongly in either direction, which means not talking about brexit any more. While the conversation is about Brexit Vapour is in a weak position. He believes it is providing rich pickings for other parties. Since the general election, it is estimated labour has lost the highest number of votes to the lib dems. 400,000. It has also lost votes to the conservatives and 200,000 to ukip. The labour party in complete disarray. They do not know what they think. You talk to labour mps on the issue and you get different answers. The labour party should be getting behind voting to trigger article 50 but i have spoken to some today who say they will still try to frustrate the process. One unlikely voiced sympathisers with labour.

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