And it. L we were hanging on the edge of panic. Fareed health care hysteria. Wars. Mass shootings. Gunman opened fire fareed racial violence. This guy is a racist. But barack obama made some big bets that paid off. Troops came home. Gase got married. S got married. Enemies were vanquished. Millions on health care. Sometimes tragedy gave birth to hope. He sang Amazing Grace he channeled that as president and it was a profoundly important moment. Fareed but as a new era begins. Mr. Trump your moment of liberation is at hand. Saide black guy smiled and that president smiled and said im a black guy named Barack Hussein obama and im president of the United States. Fareed what is the legacy of barack obama. Charlie he also wrote an essay dedicated to the power of populism called populism on the march why the west is in trouble. Im pleased to have you back on this program. Fareed a pleasure as always. Charlie lets begin with barack obama. What is his legacy . Fareed as an individual, hes tried to be the most sinceuential president Lyndon Johnson. If you look at the ambition of obamas agenda, the reshaping of health care policy, the reshaping of health care policy, regulation of the health care sector, the rescue of the economy, the bailout of the auto industry, the shift in american foreignpolicy, which is more than just a tactical one, it was a strategic one. The question is, he pushed for all those things as president , but to have a truly lasting legacy, you also need to build a Political Coalition under you. If you look at the two really consequential president s, Lyndon Johnson and fdr, and reagan to a certain extent, they ended up with congressional majorities that lasted, particularly in johnson and fdrs case. That. Was not able to do what happened over obamas watch , the Democratic Party lost heavily at almost every level. Did he cause that or how responsible was he . Fareed a very good question. Some people say its because he was not skilled as a politician in the way Lyndon Johnson was. Johnson had a way to extend his power through congress. I think there is probably some of that. He was personally a charismatic politician but the bigger issue has changed a lot in the last 15 years and has changed in ways that have been propelled by globalization, immigration and multiculturalism. There was a backlash and the democrats have paid a price. They been on the receiving end of that backlash and that force, that backlash was very strong and it was a backlash, lets be honest, to an African American president. Across see this backlash the western world. It makes me think that force was too strong for anyone president trulyak, but for a consequential legacy that would last, you probably needed that base. Was america in terms of its relationship to the world and the role of wants to play . Fareed i think under obama, it was actually clear but people disagreed. He said at the start that he thought the United States was over invested in the middle east , a crisis prone area where investments would not pay off in over invested militarily trying to in some way nation build in those areas or settle ancient disputes between the sunnis and shias. So he wants to draw down from the middle east, pivot to the part of the world where the United States has a strategic charlie can he do that with what is the nature of the relationship with the with china today . In, thereen he came were 200,000 american troops in afghanistan and iraq. Been a massive scaling back. While we have been able to doingte al qaeda and are it to isis people are that is the world we are in. Small groups of people can do big damage. On asia, what they have done has been quite wise, a strategic relationship and dialogue with china. And if you alliances are member, 10 years ago, the big debate in japan was should we ask the americans to leave . Now theyre asking us to build up. South korea, the philippines which has had a setback recently, but has been loathing in the right direction. The bigger question we now faces down of the paring american internationalist role, but still very engaged. Think of the Climate Change accord which could not have happened without american leadership. With trump, we have for the First Time Since the fdr and harry truman world, somebody who fundamentally seems to dissent from america as the upholder of the liberal some International Order the United States created in 1945. A guy who says our allies rip us off. Why are we engage with this, why doesnt japan just get Nuclear Weapons and defend itself . But do we know that is where he is in his own head because people are beginning to talk to him. There is the impression that was partly Disruptive Campaign rhetoric. Mindd with trump, we are reading. He doesnt have considered views , so you are trying to judge on the basis of instinct where he will go but the instinct seems to have been pretty consistent in this regard. To the 1980s, he was taking out fullpage ads in the New York Times arguing the japanese are ripping us off. He has a very jacksonian impulse, which is the worlds ripping us off. I think the american created order has been great for america. World population, we dominate the world economically, militarily and culturally. For most of the rest of the world, they look at the extraordinary imbalance in power america has. Trump sees and thinks were getting ripped off. Faire else pays their share and that feeling seems to run pretty deep. But he may change his mind. His statements to date constitute the most significant coherence would be jacksonian is him. Charlie America First . Fareed our allies try to rip us off. If anyone tries to mess with us, we will bomb the hell out of them. We dont want to occupy any place. We want to stay in our fortress and bomb the hell out of somebody and come back. Charlie that brings me back to populism on the margins. A piece called why the west is in trouble, not just the United States. Fareed if you try to understand this phenomenon, its happening across the western world. You ask yourself what is it and lot of folks say its about economics. But it is happening in suite mark in sweden, denmark and holland which are doing well economically. Its happening in germany which has maintained a Strong Manufacturing sector. People say its because we abandon them. The french provided enormous protections for their workers. The one common thing you notice in these countries is immigration and the backlash and response to it. One counterfactual to look at is the one country youd do not see populism, which is an advanced industrial country going through tough and dust tough Economic Times is japan. What is the one thing japan doesnt have . No immigrants. If you go through tough times economically, if you feel you therel in it together, if is some coherence, it works. Once you see the globalization of people, they look different, sound different and worship different gods, that creates unease. Charlie lets talk about that in terms of europe. In the far right in europe, in germany, france, it is rising now and all of those countries. In some cases, it has been a presence there for a while. The central idea was a kind of far right nationalism, a rejection of all things foreign. That has been combined with a connection with the loss of jobs , globalization, with all of those factors that have come together to represent one single grievance. Fareed in a sense, it is a backlash against globalization. I point out in the article that it has gone through four phases. Yet the globalizations of goods , services and capital. This is the fourth wave of globalization of people. We were able to digest that are or worse and its difficult to blame somebody. But then you get the globalization of people and now you have someone to blame. The genius of donald trump was he realized the Republican Voters out there and Many Democrats were not that republicanin the partys core ideology of tax cuts and entitlement reform. They wanted to hear about mexicans, muslims and chinese people. The mexicans were taking their jobs and the muslims were in danger in their security. On those issues, he was consistent. Once you have someone you can blame, the ideology gets a certain charge it hasnt before. Outlie how will this play in a Trump Administration . Fareed we will have to see how serious he is on those elements. We all know donald trump is going to build a large enough wall that he can do a beautiful photo op in front of it. So there is a sense that down the road there will be wall fareed . The question is will he deport millions of people. If he does that, the Agriculture Sector will go into recession. If you do charlie lets take one small simple thing torture. Heres a guy who talked about waterboarding and worse. He has one conversation with his new secretary of defense who tells them you will get more out of people with a pack of then with and candy all the torture i can recommend. All of a sudden he says i listen to this and rethought it. So look at somebody who has begun to understand the significance of where he is in the power he has. Obama had a conversation and said he is pragmatic was the central point. Going to look at the problem he faces and be a different person than he was as a candidate . Although it has some credibility makehis base, hes got to sure he communicates to them why hes doing it and hasnt forgotten his promise. The only honest answer i can give you is i hope so. I dont think any of us really know. Theres a debate among people whose starchy you staunchly opposed donald trump. My view is very much you have to hope he will flipflop on these issues, and he will be educated by people and learn more about whether its Climate Change or the realities of immigration because we dont want him to fail. If he fails, the United States fails. You dont want to run some kind of experiment of having him do these terrible things only to realize their wrong. Deport 11e to try to million people, it would be a disaster. Perhaps the result is he would become unpopular and learn through that example, but you would have screwed up 11 million peoples lives and the economy of the United States. Thats a more expensive experiment that im willing to pay. I would rather he flipflop on the issue. Charlie Henry Kissinger thinks he thinks of himself as a unique person with a unique capacity. I think obama has a healthy ego. I think he thinks he smart but i think henry overstates it. Interacting,obama im struck by obama is always asking questions. Hes always asking questions he genuinely wants to hear the answer to. Youve probably noticed this most politicians, when they ask you a question, they are simply waiting for you to stop talking and they will provide the answer. Obama doesnt do that. Questions that are genuinely designed to elicit information. I think hes very confident. Maybe even cocky, maybe even healthy, but he has a appreciation for other peoples intelligence and talent. Where he seems to have a problem is he always feels like he knows what the best deal is for you and me. So he offers it charlie im reminded of the fact that he also said dont do stupid stuff. That was one of the cardinal expressions he lived by as a leader of the United States. He understood you can cause huge repercussions if you mess up. His first obligation was to not screw it up. Fareed he thinks it takes a lot of discipline to say no. When people come and say we have this incredible military, lets send it off to do this. The ability to be disciplined i think it is partly remember president s always react to the president they succeeded. So they look at bush and i think he saw in bush someone who could to cheney and rumsfeld. You can overdo it militarily. There is always a year and then yang. That the United States can elect barack obama and then donald trump, there cannot be too greater opposites. Charlie your special is on tomorrow night. At what time. Fareed 9 00. Im sure you will be riveted. We spent a lot of time with obama, valerie jarrett, tim geithner, everyone involved in the administration to have them recreate that feeling, particularly when it started. We were in the worst economic crisis than at any point since the great depression. Hislie and i think that is single achievement even though he looks at obamacare and bringing the troops home, when the country was tottering there when he took power in 2009 come of the crisis had been in 2008. In terms of rescuing the system, that single idea failed. Months, they had to make a series of hugely consequential decisions. Compared tonow others, the United States has created more jobs than the entire oecd put together. Pluss europe plus japan south korea. I know it doesnt feel like that for some americans, but when you compare us to the rest of the d, what is striking charlie the u. S. Economy is healthy compared to rest of the world. Watch Fareed Zakaria on cnn tomorrow at 9 p. M. Eastern. Is here. Brendan iribe hes the ceo of oculus. He founded the Virtual Reality company in 2012. It was acquired by facebook in 2014 for 2 billion. Team build hardware and software with the intent to let people experience anything, anywhere with anyone. On tuesday, they choose their latest offering, the touch and controller. It follows the launch of the oculus rift headset in march. Im pleased to have Brendan Iribe at the table for the first time. Tell me about Virtual Reality. When did it begin to get some sense of significance . We have been dreaming about vr for decades. It has been in Science Fiction and movies. A lot of people think of the matrix or the star trek holiday. Weve been imagining this world but it never really has worked until the last few years. We finally got it to a place where it works. Charlie what happened to make it work . Is it the quality of software . It actually is the hardware. To put on a headset, to put on avr device and have your brain tract to have that switch flipped where you believe you are there and you go from imagining being in a Virtual World to your brain believing you are there, that took a lot of work, a lot of complex technology and for the first time, they came together for years ago. Charlie and it can make you believe you are in precarious situations and you can feel the fear of falling climbing around him. You can feel the sense of climbing it, but knowing if you look down, you dont want to let go. Brendan your brain kicks in and instead of trying to imagine you are somewhere, imagine we can step into that movie and your brain is saying we are on this cliff. We are this high up and you need to be careful. You are telling your brain, dont worry, we are just in the yard. What were you doing when you decided to create oculus . Brendan i was at other company and we were working on streaming technology. We were in the midst of being acquired and i got the chance to meet palmer lucky. When i saw the early prototype he was working on, we quickly came together to found oculus. Charlie why the name oculus . Brendan palmer had picked the name oculus and he was excited about that name and the name wrist for the first product we were working on. We decided lets go out and create a kickstarter. Kickstarter was brandnew at the time and it was a crowdfunding site to evangelize and get vr out to the mass market. It had never worked before. Charlie many people believe virtualreality is the next big that form. Has suggested it has that possibility. Do you agree . Brendan absolutely. When we first started, we were focused on gaming and it was all about stepping into the game. When we were marching along and making the technology better, we realized it was going to be for a lot more than gaming. We would be able to teleport people to any destination honors and put people facetoface. Whatever the game is connie sit in front of your screen and are able to do things and make wings move and theres a game to it. With a virtual you are on the playing field. Brendan you are first person. You feel like you have stepped through the game and its all around you, 360 degrees. You look down and see your hands, so you really feel like you are fully immersed in that videogame. Tell me what you mean by touch how your hands to be the capacity to manipulate within the field you are in. These are our touch controllers and they are fully tracked in six degrees of freedom. As you are moving these round, your hands are showing up in the virtual experience. You see your hands where they should be. Makean pick them up and gestures to people. Charlie where could this go to have a huge impact in terms of possible utilization of Virtual Reality . Of the next great frontiers we look at is virtual teleportation being able to teleport to other places around the globe. To scan in the earth and scan and popular places, important places like museums and the mayan ruins, different temples. For the first time, he will have people who can put on goggles and teleport in there. Charlie in terms of medicine, we were talking about this this morning. Can give you the capacity , to putgeon, i assume you within a larger environment where you are doing microscopic stuff. Correct me if im wrong. Brendan you are absolutely right. You can go down and shrink into someones surgical procedure and get in there at a microscopic level and feel like you are in their with the cells and organisms and you can identify things. You can for education, for training surgery, imagine medical students in their dorm rooms, if they could put on a pair of glasses and do simulated surgery again and again, all night long, they could run through dozens of procedures and continue to get