Transcripts For CNBC Closing Bell 20140909

Company he founded nearly 50 years ago, coming up with sallie kr krawcheck. Stay tuned for these exclusive interviews next hour. Plus, is it ever okay to borrow against your 401 k . A top money manager says no, never. Just dont do it. Its explained in a piece burning up cnbc. Com today and the author will join us to make his case. Before all of that, lets look at where markets are trading. Dow off by about 75 points today. Second straight day here with the red arrows. S p off 9 to 9. 92. So much seems to hang on the fate of the apple watch. They were up the best part of 3 and then falling back as the market did. Joining us, 8 gain for the s p so far this year. Where do you think well trade from here . I think in the short run probably tread water and be in a range between 1920 and 2000 on the s p. Earnings coming in to solidify for next year. We have 130 for next year. A 16 month to that, theres fits and starts for people the use the cash. Lets just bottom line what youre saying there. You believe, correct me if im wrong, well trade at this level or below and make a 5 gain next year . Yes. People have an opportunity to make more than that. Thats the feeling. Momentum is in the other direction, at least for strategists on the street. We have had people who are still s p targets for a year 1800. Deutsch bank up to at least 2000. Todd, you know, tell us where you see fair value here. Within u. S. Equities, a couple things to do. We see stronger values in strong cap. If you look at valuations, theyre rich and liquidity is not great despite the liquidity in the world. It is not great. Youve seen the russell selloff pretty quickly a number of times this year and within the u. S. , Tax Management strategy makes a lot of sense. Wed much rather have a low fee way to play it and pick up 8 a year by harvesting the tax losses. Diane, last time you were on and id love to know the response there was. You were making the point back to the fundamentals for the economy things looking up for the middle and lower part of the economy sitting this out. What was the response to those comments to the debate we were having and do you see signs throughout that those are moving in the right direction . We are seeing some of the evidence becoming Even Stronger so if we look at the median income, you know, the median income, certainly has been steady. In some cases falling. But we also have three data point that is are really important to focus in on. Household values rising pretty dramatically. The highest we have had since the recession. The second thing thats really important is Consumer Confidence. People are finally feeling safe in their jobs. Right . Albeit part time jobs seeing a tremendous growth and then the third thing thats really finally picking up is a lot of debt, a lot of lending on the part of banks. In fact, 9. 5 billion in revolving credit loans this month alone, the data that just came out, so whats key here is people are feeling confident enough finally to dip into household equity they may have and go back on what well call the traditional american spending spree. Are you sure . Are you sure, diane . I see here that you believe that that could go through to retail sales and the sector up only 2 or 3 so far this year. So the Market Action doesnt reflect your optimism. Yeah. Because the market, this data is new data. Right . I think one of the thing that iss really important is Consumer Discretionary has suffered throughout most of this year, waiting for consumers to have that confidence back. And waiting for the banks to finally be willing to lend. We now have banks lending and people borrowing and this is the time that Consumer Discretionary likely do very well. I wouldnt be surprised if retail Sales Numbers come out very strong next month. Keep an eye on it. Bringing susan now into the conversation from fbb partners. Susan, asking you about the equity action today against the backdrop just laid out. Stocks under pressure for the second day running. Do you think its from the talk of hawkish behavior relative to Public Perception and something to do with whether mario draghi in europe has the backing of france and germany to go ahead with the stimulus efforts . I think what ill call the big blue egg is fragile and a lot of problems both in europe and globally, that give me pause. You know, our Interest Rates arent high but theyre dramatically higher than the Interest Rates in europe so and some senses were supporting them. Europes not having a recovery. Scotlands very scary. Scotland goes, does northern italy go . Does Northern Spain go . I think we have a tremendous number of systemic problem that is are going to keep this market relatively flat for the rest of the year. We dont think were overvalued, though. Remarkable thing, though, susan, thats not the story so far, is it . S p sits very close to a record up almost 8 for the year. And whenever we have the market fall for geo Political Risks immediately you gate vshaped rebound. People had nowhere else to go. I mean, when i worked in the Advertising Industry and someone gave an Advertising Agency a budget of money, they had to send it or they couldnt earn money. The same thing is true of money managers. Only way to make money is to be invested. And theres very few places they can be invested in the United States is one of them. Forgive me. But therefore, if im an investor understanding both sides of what youre saying, dont i basically sit in the market . Why should i take geo Political Risk to buy behind me . Simon, theres one reason. The ghost of 2008. The pain, the pain of losses twice as great as the pleasure from gain, yeah. Ill tell you if you start to get a selloff or start to have some winds of trouble, earnings, a lot of people may be quick to pull the trigger. I think well say in this range and i dont think its a one decision market right now. People should keep some cash around for a rainy day. You know most of the market. Go ahead, susan. We are down 90 points at the session lows and off 101 today and definitely pressure over here across the board. Well, i think, number one, that globally it really looks like we are going into more trouble rather than less. Number two, i dont think the market is confident but i think it does need to stay invested. Most of the money thats invested is institutional money. Us little cockroaches on the sidelines, run out get a little bite and run back again. Its true. We know that ownership of the cockroaches is lower than it used to be. Speak for yourself. Just wanted to ask a question about the extent to which, you know, we should look at some of the pressure here as a result of good news, in other words, is this because in the u. S. We have got some people out there talking about higher Interest Rates or is it because its the 10year moving higher, in other words, opposed to old riskoff moves and stocks hammered and the 10year lower and Everything Else was selling off . 10year is moving higher paying nothing in europe. And europe has to be invested. And the only place they can go is to the 10year. I would move that would move the 10year lower, people move, you know, people in europe trying to stay invested in the u. S. Treasuries. It is good news is bad news type thing. You had a very, very strong number last year and i would have thought spooked the market more and seeing this type of selloff. You have the bls number on friday. Thats subject to revisions and i think the market is pricing that in a little bit to get strong Economic News and the fed moving sooner than expected. Just to that point and to the Point Richard of earlier, todd, you have the strong gain of the dollar and ties in. The dollar index is up 5 over the last 2 months. Youre telling people that they should go into the big caps. Isnt that dollar move, if it continues, a real problem for Profit Growth once youve bought it back into the country and translated it into the greenback . Im not as concerned about this. Really . I think cap x is picking up in the u. S. And also in the United States, theyre performing very well and very well in the face of a strong dollar and theres a ton of money out of the ecb, bank of japan. The investors think the u. S. Is the best place on earth. You are making a great point. A quick show of hands, whos buying the apple watch . Yeah, no, not happening. I will. Future buying it for me. The watch. Perhaps a gender thing going on here. Im out of apple. Well take it as some sort of cosmic tell. Thank you. We have 15 minutes to go with the market going to a triple digit loss and the s p off 13. The nasdaq, simon, off 40 as apple and well mention and discuss coming up. Also Steve Liesman is hearing rumbles the fed may alter the language on Interest Rates at next weeks closely watched Monetary Policy. Wait until you hear what those changes are and how it could affect your money. Apple finally unveiling the bigg bigger iphone. The pros will weigh if they overpromised and underdelivered or a home run in the making. Why you may want to think twice of borrowing against your 401 k . One top money man says you should never, ever do it. Theres a difference when you trade with fidelity. One you wont find anywhere else. Onesecond trade execution. Guaranteed. Did you see it . In one second, he made a trade, we looked for the best price, and the trade went through. Do the other guys guarantee that . Didnt think so. Open an account and find more of the expertise you need to be a better investor. Big day . Ah, the usual. Moved some new cars. Hauled a bunch of steel. Kept the supermarket shelves stocked. Made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. Whats up for the next shift . Ah, nothing much. Just keeping the lights on. laugh nice. Doing the big things that move an economy. See you tomorrow, mac. See you tomorrow, sam. Cut those losses throughout, however, heading into now the last 45 minutes of trade, you can see that were tracking lower. Lets get over to dom chu for more of the movers. Talk about some of the name that is arent perhaps apple here. Annies moving higher on new that is General Mills will buy it for 820 million or 46 a share. Thats a 31 premium over the Closing Price on monday. Both natural food stocks boulder brands and whitewave foods and hain celestial moving higher on that news. Tough day for mcdonalds. Hitting a 52week low after reporting weaker than expected drops in august global sales as problems continued with this chinese supply issues. Also mobile eye gaining ground. The maker of auto Collision Avoidance techniques landing with toyota. Kimberly ross is leaving for same post as oil Services Provider and cutting the ratding for the stock avon to a neutral ratding. Back over to you. Dom, thank you. You probably be aware that the Federal Reserve is holding a twoday meeting next week and rumbling that the team could alter the language on Interest Rate. Steve liesman joins us now with the power of the words in the story. Steve . Good intro there, kelly. Odds are rising to make an important change to the policy statement, perhaps as soon as the meeting next week, debating to drop a key phrase of a considerable time after qe inen until the rate hike. They were thinking six months. In october and many think the first rate hike in the middle of next year but recently officials from both sides of the aisle, doves and hawks, said that the decision to raise rates based on data and not dates and jp morgan reacting to this writes that the desire to get away from datebased guidance appeals to both hawks and doves. We view the chance of such a change next week as 5050. Some analysts not going that far but raised the odds. Our base case is that considerable time survive september and we view this as a much closer call than a week ago and thinks that the change is more likely to come in october or november. That could spook markets and the fed could try to convince people that the change is only to add flexibility and introduce as much uncertainty to the rate outlook as exists in their own minds. Theres definitely going to be more volatility of economic reports if the change is made and the data more data than date dependent and you can read more on cnbc. Com. Kelly . Thank you. Stay with us. Lets bring in jeff cox. With the dow off 103, how concerned would the market be . We have seen an investor surveys over and over that more than ukraine, more than the middle east and the global problems we have, investors fear the fed more than anything especially a mistake in policy. I wrote today about analysis of pimco and basically breaks the recovery such as this down into two parts and first part is fed dleliberately raise it is asset and bond prices for the socalled wealth affect. The second part is when they have to start normalizing policy and hopefully that wealth effect trickles down into the overall economy. The problem here comes for investors in that when that part comes, according to the pimco thesis, thats when returns start to slow and we get back to this sort of new neutral type of rates. So i do think that from the markets perspective, theyre very justified and fearing what comes next for the fed. Look, you know, i was one of the people out there who said, gee, surprise, surprise, the fed will have to backtrack on their lack wage and change their time frame and according to they want to do things opposed to how the markets going to dictate to do things. Interesting. Steve, lets come back to this Research Published yesterday and the San Francisco fed which actually suggested that fed members expect the higher trajectory than investors and whether they feel they need to in some senses to kick the bond market in particular, to kick it into action and say, youre being way too dovish from where we stand and stop a market repositioning. I know you have been busy and didnt read my story but thats what it says. Im sorry. Every show, simon, but this is a reason that lou crandall thinks might be a reason to remove the language next week. The market and now looking for only 75 basis points of a fed funds rate at the end of 2015, versus a fed where the average funds rate forecast now among the 17 fed members is 1. 2 or 1. 2 or 120 basis points. That difference is a reason why as you say steve, let me jump in for a second. Lets ask about yellen versus the rest. This is the point of charles last meeting saying we said in prior statements that when Economic Conditions were met along the lines of right now, the fed funds rate would be higher and its not. A, the outlook is still evolving. B, a lot of this depends does it not on the dovish bias that most people still maintain. It does. Kelly, lets talk about what policy is. Under bernanke, there was a policy of Forward Guidance which was trying to get the market to believe that rates would not rise for a specific time. It was building on that research that came out in jackson hole. We appear to be moving and this is the key here from a Forward Guidance regime to a data dependent regime where it depends on what the data says rather than a promise. The reason they went to a Forward Guidance regime is because they were at the zero bound and out of tricks and pulled another thing out of their hat. It is all very well getting transparent on your way into easing and cant be as transparent coming out of it and having to tighten because it has the opposite effect on the markets. Lets turn it back down to the investor perspective. Theyre hinging on the other word and the fed is basing the projections on a scenario that it really has no idea how it plays out because they have never been there before. We have seen in the past how unliable fed forecasts are and steve says throwing away nonsense about going for dates and like, oh, when we turn the calendar page, thats suddenly going to change things. The important thing is going to be the data and the fed doesnt know what it will be and terrible. Thats why theyre doing this. We have to go. But fair to say, steve, to recap or to sort of sum this up that both the hawks and the doves at the fed would like to see us move toward data dependent language . Different reasons. One wants hawks want faster rate hikes and the doves for policy here. And so we get the excitement of a statement change. Oh you. Try to contain yourself. Try to contain yourself. And thank you, jeff cox. Appreciate it. Alan greenspan speaking with us exclusively tomorrow and asking him all about this, of course. Be sure to tune in. One of the first, simon, i think to issue a fed statement. And that was only in like 96. How times have changed. You havent. You still love it. Okay. A look at where we are in the markets at the moment. Continuing the lose ground here down 113 on the dow. More on whats causing us to fall ahead on the show. Coming up, big doings out in apple land today and u2 playing a concert. Part of the announcement. We have the breakdown of everything on the new e iphones to the watch and the pros weigh in on whether apple over or under developed on the unveiling. Aflac and a gentle wavelike motion. Aahhh ahhhhhh. Liberate your spine, ahhhahhhhhh aflac and reach, toes blossoming. Not that great at yoga. Yeah, but when i slipped a disk he paid my claim in just four days. Ahh four days . Yep. Find out how fast aflac can pay you, at aflac. Com. Ok, if youre up there, i coulsmart sarah. Elp. Seeking guidance. Just like with your investments. That sets you apart. It does . It does. Youre type e. And seeking another perspective is what type e s do. Oh, and your next handhold. Is there. You dont have to go it alone. E trade gives you the support and guidance to make informed decisions. Are you type e . Weighing on the session all day today and kept into reasonably positive territory or losses with apple, apple lost ground so under such an important big stock and seen that the rest of the market is, therefore, dipped further into negative territory. Apple was up best part of 3 i think im right in saying earlier today. Yeah. Lets bring in josh lipton with a closer look at that big new product offering. Josh . Well, simon, the event really just wrapping up. Nearly two hours, long event. One that was just jam packed with news start to finish. Walk through the highlights. Apple introduced two new iphones, bigger versions. Iphone 6 and 6 plus. 4. 7 and 55inch screens respectively. Starting price 199 and 299. Get your hands on one september 19th or preorder them on september 12th. Tim cook on stage calling this the biggest advancement in the history of the iphone. Faster, more efficient and improved camera and a better battery. Remember, cook had also promised a new product category this year and made good on the promise. Apple today unveiling the apple watch and starts at 349. It will be available early next year. The head of design talking about the sapphire display, siri capability, three different collections, stainless steel, sport and 18 karat gold version. If you want that watch, though, then you have to have at least an iphone 5 or higher and cook calling it the next chapter of the apple story. Wasnt all just about hardware, though, today. We also heard about apple moving in the mobile payment space. They want you to use your iphone as a wallet. Going to a retailer, forget about the credit card or pulling out cash. You should jus be able to tap your phone. Apple partnering with visa, mastercard and American Express in a range of retailers, brands and companies of whole foods to mcdonalds to macys. You know, guys, u. S. Mobile payments, 21 billion in 2013. Forecast to reach 90 billion by 2017 according to forester. Big tech including apple wants a piece of that pie. Back to you. Josh, as exciting as the launches may be, a couple of usability features going back to the iphone here maybe disappointed. One being battery life and the other being the screen. Gt advance technologies down double digits after sapphire glass they produce apparently not on the new iphones and said to be unscratchible. And i have seen people with spider web cracked glass phones on the older Iphone Models here. Right. So youre absolutely right, kelly, that when we were thinking about these next generation phones and what they could have, people talked about the bigger screens, expecting a faster phone, a more efficient phone. They thought you would see the improved camera and speculation of maybe you would have the sapphire display and as you point out it is tougher, more scratch resistant and also a lot more expensive. Now that sapphire glass wont be on the phone and will, however, be on the new watch, kelly. Yeah. I think a lot of people are wondering why you would preannounce the watch is coming but not make it available until january. So a question as to whether people would delay expenditure over the christmas or holiday period and buy the watch and phone and you enter the period when they pull in the new talent, new designers, and the styling and the design of these watches really does take potentially apple into a different territory, into a fashion kind of space if you like. Thats really what im driving at, josh. Yeah. No, i think thats spot on, simon. I had the opportunity to have breakfast with one of apples founders and asked him specifically about apple moving into this category and what he immediately told me was what you have to first and foremost recognize is when you move into the watch business, you are in the jewelry business and thats very different. How successful it will be it is the price point and it is going to come down to the form factor, design. A lot of apples rivals with the smart watches and face charges with the aesthetics. Did they get it right . Enough consumers find it attractive enough and proud enough to wear it on their wrist. Look at the features on the watch. Track your pulse. Have, josh, as you well know, they have the home and health and this and that kit. Is all that matters that, hey, a sleek new gadget to have a lot of functions people are looking for and maybe some of those Health Functions an important piece of that . I think, kelly, you are going to have to, you know, cook and ives convince consumers this is a piece of hardware they need in their lives. Whens the ultimate impact . Most of the analysts reading and those of Goldman Sachs saying they dont see a Financial Impact of the watch in the context of 180 million revenue base and more to the point it does potentially separate apple from its rivals. It does increase the stickiness of ios and possibly present some new revenue opportunities. Wearing something that close to you is not the same as an iphone, is it . You need to be different and have some individuality. I think its a different ball game. Well, well find out in a couple of months. Thank you. The quiet. Youre welcome. Weve got 28 minutes to go. The dow off 100 points. Watching apples shares. Theyre coming back towards unchanged territory. Weighing in on if tim cook hit a home run next. Why fed governor is turning up the heat on the nations biggest banks pushing for even Higher Quality requirements and wait until you hear the rules he wants to subject Big Insurance Companies to, as well. Reaction from the former bank of America Executive in just a moment. Once there was a girl who always mixed and matched. Even in her laundry room. With downy unstopables for longlasting scent. And infusions for softness. She created her own mix, match, magic. Downy, wash in the wow. Down triple digits on the dow a couple of minutes and managed to bounce just above 17,000 on the dow. Amazon, discovery and trip adviser. All eyes on apples big event today. Lets get more reaction. Welcome, darren. Thank you for being here. Look, we were just having this discussion about apple and which of the features most relevant. From a shareholder point of view or at least from an analyst point of view, what do you think is the big news here . Actually, one of the big news of the day i think is the apple pay because, i mean, you know, the watch is great. New piece of hardware. Interesting market. I think its got a readymade audience of gadget freaks and geeks at least on the male side of the equation. Not sure of the females. Its a nice audience and nichey. Despite some of the cool things they have done innovating that market space. I have a feeling its not going to move the needle with a couple doing upwards of 200 billion a year in sales and so actually from my point of view, the apple pay is kind of the more interesting piece of the story. The monitorization is determined but in the past whens been great about this smartphone in general and apple in particular is the way they have obliterated every device you have needed and rid of the mp3 players, cameras, laptops. All is now all that functionality in the phone and getting rid of my wallet, all the better. So i happen to think that the software play could be a very interesting piece of the puzzle. In fairness, darren, not the first into the market with this. Samsung is running it as i understand. Getting into a yellow cab here in new york city it has the capability to some of the other technology thats on the table. I think the analyst coming into today was that the Payment System is more not really about a hugely profit center. It was more about ensuring that you kept people within your ecosystem. Paying, it is another reason unlikely to defect somewhere else. I think its a key part. I mean, obviously, one of the appeals of apple as an investment is the power they have within their platform. The ecosystem and certainly 400 million, 800 million users of itunes, 400 million owners of iphone, thats an impressive and powerful ecosystem and certainly the more functionality you build on to that the more stickiness you have. However, i have a feeling just like when they launched itunes, they said that was not a moneymaker. It is a moneymaker and i have a feeling that as more people adopt this functionality theyre going to find a way to make some money from it, as well. And theyre going potentially partnering here with the Card Companies because, darren, thinking through who this is going to displace, you think its the people processing this payments of amazon to capture that margin or perhaps worked out agreement with the Card Companies. Yeah. Again, im not privy to the financial details. Theres a lot of players involved, obviously the Financial Networks arent going to, you know, willingly give up a lot of economics unless theres real value add there but i believe, again, it is going to be software in our opinion is going to be a very interesting, high margin source of revenue for apple continuing to develop ecosystem. Before we let you go, this stock had a really good run over the last six months. Up about 30 . Clearly not popping coming out of it. The stock sold off immediately. Do you think this is a turning point and build on gains here for apple or do you think the stock will fall . Great question. I mean, you know, it is a top position in the fund but we have been reducing the position from about a 7 position to now a little bit under 5 . I have a feeling talking to me in 6 or 12 months its a smaller position and remain core. We have owned apple 1 a share and we have a tremendous run and i think you could have one more big run here. The pentup demand for the big screen iphone is incredible. I think people surprised even despite some of the High Expectations about how robustly sales occur in the holiday season. However, were always thinking a little bit ahead here and i think the next cycle is more challenging one for the company so unless some of these new devices or markets start moving the needle, then perhaps apple is going to run into some challenges. The other interesting dilemma is the tablets. How does it cannibalize the ipad market. Thinking through all of this on the heels of the major series of product announcements today, darren, thank you. 20 minutes to go here. Well have plenty more on the markets straight ahead. Plus, what you need to know about scotlands vote next thursday to potentially end the 300year union and how it could affect your portfolio. This is a burrito made with chocolate, soybeans, and apricots. What kind of chef comes up with this . A chef working with ibm watson, on the cloud. Ingredients are just data. Watson turns big data into new ideas. And not just for food. Watson is working with doctors and bankers to help transform their industries. Today theres a new way to work. And its made with ibm. I make a lot of purchases foand i get ass. Lot in return with ink plus from chase. Like 50,000 bonus points when i spent 5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. And i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at Office Supply stores. With ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. Travel, gift cards, even cash back. And my rewards points wont expire. So you can make owning a business even more rewarding. Ink from chase. So you can. So what were looking for is a way to plus our Accounting Firms mobile plan. And minus our expenses. Perfect timing. Were offering our bestever pricing on mobile plans for business. Run the numbers on that. Well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be. Oneseventyfive a month. Good calculating kyle. Good job kyle. You just made partner. Our bestever pricing on mobile share value plans for business. Now with a 100 bill credit for every business line you add. For more than 300 years, scotland is part of the United Kingdom and now facing a dramatic and costly change as the land of William Wallace and birthplace of golf prepares to vote on a referendum for independence next week. We have the latest on the attempts by now the leadership in london to save the union. Michel michelle, good evening. Its not looking so united. Today began the full court press by Prime Minister cameron to convince the scots to stay in the United Kingdom. The Scottish Flag is over 10 downing street. It will stay there through next weeks referendum and today Opposition Leader head of the labour party also called on the british people to fly the Scottish Flags over the homes in a sign of unity with the scots. Former british Prime Minister brown unveiled a package of promises to the scots to vote against independence and get more say over the fiscal policy, social policy and tax revenues. The british pound today stabilize after the massive selloff of yesterday in the wake of the polls that saw for the first time suggested that scotland could actually break away from the uk. Today the head of the bank of england signaled an Interest Rate hike next spring and put a floor under the pound. The uncertainty about scotland leading to a rise in Interest Rates in spain. Thats because spain also has a potential breakaway region which is long agitated for independence. Will they be emboldened by this vote . Watching the polls over the next several days to see how it goes. Back the you. That will turn it around, putting a Scottish Flag over downing street and really ease the concern. You sound skeptical. What do you think of the move . I dont know. Michelle, will you go to scotland and see you there next week . I dont know, simon. Well have to see. I think you should. Depends on the polls. People michelle, send nate silver over there. You are right. Figure it out. I think you are right, simon. People seen the flag as part of a whole too little, too late. Now you like us, huh, kind of response. And then somewhat have been described as cheesy efforts by various celebrities to keep the scots in as well. The flags very recently. When diana died and didnt pull the Royal Standard to half mast. It was a point at which we thought potentially the monarchy might fall and a quick question. Do you think that this is going to have an impact next week on the markets or somebody else suggested on air yesterday and such a slow negotiated process that there wont be that much fallout against london . I think its both. I think absolutely will be a lot of consternation within the markets if the voting looks like its extremely close and uncertain or if it looks like theyre going to vote for independence because you know theres so much uncertainty about, okay, what does that mean about the Banking System in scotland . Does that mean the bank of england is lender of last resort in if they will be, okay, then things are calm for a while. We dont know the answer to that, right . Well hear those things over the next week or so i would think. Even voting to save part of the union, scotland granted a little bit more autonomy and independence on the matters and seems either way, it will be a different relationship post next thursday than it is today. Oh, absolutely. I mean, clearly theyre going to get more than they would have otherwise. And what i find incredibly ironic about the whole situation is we have been worrying for months about the territorial integrity of iraq and ukraine and instead its the United Kingdom to talk about which could potentially fall apart here. Great point. Thank you. Interesting juxtaposition. Wow. Take no prisons, mcc. 12 minutes to go here. Thank you. As we digest all of this, dow off 100 points on the session today. Second straight day of weakness. Apple shares giving back earlier gains. Coming up, why its probably not a good idea to borrow against your 401 k . In fact, one money mind says its one of the worst Financial Decisions you could ever make. Were back in a moment. When fixed income experts work with equity experts who work with regional experts who work with Portfolio Management experts thats when expertise happens. Mfs. Because there is no expertise without collaboration. Wait, wait, wait, its wait, wait, wait. Whoa, does she have special powers when she has the shroud . No. Guys . Its the woven one the woven one. Oh, oh that gives her invincibility. Guys . No, no, no. The scarlet king is lord victors son no dont. I told you you guys are gonna be so surprised when you watch the finale youre so lucky your car has wifi. Yeah. I am. Equinox from chevrolet. The first and only car company to bring builtin 4g lte wifi to cars, trucks and crossovers. E financial noise financial noise financial noise financial noise welcome back now. Lets go out to cupertino, california. Josh lipton joins us now. Josh . Well, kelly, apple making news today moving hard into the mobile payment space and one of the partners there is visa and joined by visas president. Ryan, maybe just to start with, walk us through what visas announcing today and why it matters for the company. Sure. We announced Visa Token Service today, a new platform and capabilities for partners to launch new payment capabilities like you heard apple announce today and ensure that every time a consumer uses it, it eels a very safe and secure transaction. Kelly, i think you and simon had a question for ryan. Yeah. How does it work . What do you do . Token that you slip places . Its not a physical token but a digital token so it essentially is is a card number thats put on to the phone, on to the secure element you heard tim talk about today with a dynamic element thats constantly changing that insure that is if your phone is ever taken or any other person tries to make a payment that, you know, youre not at risk and a safe and secure transaction every time you make a payment. Kelly . Yeah. Just again, to understand how this all works, the program you are announcing here today, is this specifically for apple . Apple is a part of this . Just explain to us how this is all evolving and what the next step in mobile payments is looking like. Yeah. The Visa Token Service is a capability that we have built for all of our partners. Apple has embedded it as the core of that service that it launched today but were working with issuers and partners and merchants and well be working increasingly around the world to help launch Additional Payment Services and really at the end of the day what were trying to do is make it easier and simpler for consumers to pay with visa. And every time they do it, make sure they know that its a safe and secure transaction. All right. Thank you for joining us today, sir. We appreciate it. Ill send it back to you in new york. Josh, thank you very much. Up next, coming right back with the closing countdown. 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We dipped at 98 points shortly after the opening this morning. Notably lost support of apple. A main reason we were holding in positive territory. Not necessarily on the dow but more broadly across the market because apple isnt in the dow as you know. Joining me now, bob pisani and michael block. Thats why the nasdaq is weaker than the dow because i think the decline in the nasdaq is due to apple. Im not sure the overall market. I did see gold pop up a little bit 45 minutes ago. The yen weakened against the dollar. There you see gold moving into positive territory there. Popping up in the last 45 minutes. Maybe a little bit to do with the weakness. What is your take . I think i see a weakness in the nasdaq and bob mentioned the yen. For me, the trouble started overnight. We saw crazy moves in the yen movement, the dollar continuing to be strong, treasuries losing the bid and then some emerging markets currencies worse. We had the apple ups and downs on top of that. This morning i said, hey, im calling an end to this little rally and looking for a pullback right here right now in the s p. I think we have a percent down or so at least. Steve liesman was talking about the fact that the fed could tweak the statement on Interest Rates next week. One of the major stories, of course, the strength in the dollar. Which is up 5 on the dollar index. Up 5 in just two months. Where does that take us. You know, for me, you know, the dollar, you know, the Dollar Strength is something to ajust to. The fed is more hawkish and we had, you know, some talk of guys like steve and also San Francisco fed report out overnight saying that the public is underestimating how hawkish the fed is. And, you know, fact of the matter is even a strong dollar could be good for the market and certain sectors like consumer and means theres an adjustment period which is why i was looking for this weakness happening right now. The fed tweaking is an important move and agree with steve on that. We didnt see the 10year move. I dont think thats responsible for the decline, the little move to the downside we saw. I think this thing with scotland took people by surprise and i think, remember, scotland 25 of the uk right now very labor oriented. If they move out of uk, you have a lot more tori base in the uk and more hostile to the eu and a wild card nobody anticipating. Michael, i appreciate what your saying but are we overplaying the scottish aspect . A couple of polls. Too close to call. It is but the point is treasuries are moving around. Netnet they havent moved. The excess volatility momentum. Okay. Closing bell continues now. Thank you. Heres kelly evans. Thank you, simon. Welcome to the closing bell. Heres how were finishing up the day with the dow off 97 here on the close. S p giving up 13. The nasdaq off 40 points. And well keep a close eye on apple shares here, as well. Now lets join joining me now is todays closing bell panel and sallie and Sharon Epperson and more on todays markets reaction to the apple event, trader brian kelly and gene muster from cupertino in just a moment. Bk, kick it off with you here. Why do you think were seeing the weakness in the market for the second straight session . Well, today, it was because apple sold off and such a large part of the indices and going to pull everything down but we have really been going sideways far month here and had every reason in the world for the market to rally and then the path of least resistance is lower and probably a pullback of everybody waiting for, expecting. I dont think its a major bull market. You can say in crude, sharon. Whatever the markets are doing, they get a little bit of a break at the gas pump. That is true. Thats something thats kind of boosted Consumer Confidence according to some surveys and looking at customers are doing now and their ideas about spending, the fact they have been paying 20 cents less than the last two months or so, thats something thats helping them. That should lead them a little extra money. Sallie, i know you are first in line to buy an apple watch. Save up, right . Its very interesting. Objects of desire. People pay more for objects of desire than things they have to have. I just am curious why you think the idea of monitoring your pulse, the Health Information and in light of some of the leaks that the cloud has had lately, i mean, do you feel like this is all going a step too far or the cool factor override it . We are going there. Its a question of how soon and from our background, a matter of time before some generation after us says what was money . You mean you carried those unsanitary pieces of paper around with you and everybodys hands touched them . Were going there. It is a matter of how soon. Kelly, my first reaction to the apple watch is what are they watching about us . Im sure theyre watching more carrying them around all the time. I was excited about the more than that apple watch today. Do tell. There were positives. It held the highs that it reached in july. You know . 7 million job openings. Looking good. 1. 8 , 2. 5 Million People left their jobs and a good sign for the economy. People are feeling confident about moving on to the next thing and it could affect Janet Yellens dashboard going into the fmoc meeting next week. How much underutilization is there in the market . Maybe not as much as as before. Its interesting. They say on social media now some of the best selling, best read blogs are about how to quit your job. Used to be how not to get fired and things feel better. Great point and why the market is having this debate which we have seen some reporting on including Steve Liesman saying the language could change. Whys everybody obsessed with the language to change . Why might the market here be selling off on it . I think the issue of considerable time after the asset purchases is an important one. The fed is looking at a calendar date. Six months after october or longer oral less than that. I actually think that you might see a change in the way they describe the Economic Situation before you actually see a change in the Forward Guidance. Janet yellen shown in the past she is not willing to make major changes unless they have to. They dont have to change the language until october and theres likely discussion about it but the likelihood that theyll move and change that guidance might not happen for another month. In other words, think near one way or another by the baby steps, changes in the language, sharon, saying things are Getting Better . Seem to be saying things are Getting Better and by the reports that we are seeing from others that survey consumers, it seems its slightly better. Baby steps and the fact of some improvement is a good sign. Bk, do you agree . Baby steps is actually the right term here. Remember, janet yellen has in the front of her mind the bond market selloff that happened in 1994. She has probably one of the hardest jobs that a central banker has ever had unwinding Ben Bernankes massive trade so the stakes are very, very high. She has to take it very slow and over the next week into the meeting probably see the equities markets sell off on people repositioning and ultimately it will have no it wont have much of an effect. So lets think about the next step from there, something we all care about, which is as this is unwound and as we see Interest Rates go up, what happens to the banks . Right . What are we going to learn about the health of the banks when we enter one day bond a sustained bond bear market . They can say theyre ready for it. They may be. I never like bear market and bank in the same sentence. Nobody else does either. I wonder to what extent it ties together with what were hearing from apple of payments and whens did difference between the core banking functions and the payments functions out there . What about the ipo of the lending club coming to market and some of the different way that is people are now matching people to borrow money with people willing to give it to them . Its a fundamental question of the banks which is where they will get the growth abe not the upside volatility of a good market but getting underlying growth and innovating is very difficult no matter what business youre in with the increased regulation of the banks, with the tightrope they have to walk. Its very tough for them and seeing innovation hit on different sides. That is expanding the market which is great but in some cases taking away the Growth Opportunities of the banks. It is not only on kind of a technology but on the security around it and i think when you talk about payment and banking, that has people even more frightened when they see just yesterday the home depot, you know and the Community Banking association is out there saying to people, we need better regulations to deal with this and the costs arent fallingen all of us. I want to bring in gene muster joining out of cupertino talking about mobile payments and does seem to be one of the major headlines of the apple event today. Definitely. That stole the show. A lot of what was going on around two iphones and the watch anticipated. So was payments. But the reality is this is the biggest news apples had in terms of Consumer Services since they launched itunes and so i really think that the significance of this is really going to sink in over the next six months but that was a big deal today with apple pay. Gene, whats it do to your price targets for apple . We just moved it up to 120 last week and so as it stands, we are not making any changes to that but i felt better about that 120 price target to play around with the two phones and i think as you have been talking about here is that 5. 5inch phone, surprisingly thin and i think thats going to have a clearly be a home run and also going to do something which ironly is positive which is going to be cannibalize some of the low end ipad mini sales and given the gross profit differences between the two is an important differentiation here and the stock is down for a day and the clear takeaways we felt more comfortable of owning apple. Theres one question, sallie, over the Banking Industry and agitated about the idea that even though a company like u. S. Bank is saying were pleased to partner with apple pay, consumer debit and credit cards, how many people using the phone when they ask who do they bank with say apple . Will they say chase . Does that relationship, that banking relationship, does apple own that even if the back end is provided by somebody else . Thats an outstanding question. For all of us bringing a little bit of apple Customer Experience to banking is a positive. But youre right. Who then owns the customer. I think as investors in apple, you have to ask the question about what does this do for apples risk . It felt like it was a problem with product risk and innovation risk and now a data leak and payment section. One thing if you lose your frigging song on itunes. Doh. I have to download that thing again. You start to have issues with money and security breaches, all of a sudden, you know, the banks have learned, those things happen, that can be a real impact to your consumer brand. Gene, i also noted that when apple rolls out the update to ios 8 i think next wednesday, theyll allow more of the apps to speak and communicate with one another. Theyre going to allow more of them to potentially use the touch, the finger touch verification. What does that do to security risks as the apps are implemented here . You know, i think apples going to take more of the security responsibility on but i think that theyre well technology equipped to do that. It makes consumers feel better about using a phone as a wallet. Having touch id. Opening it up to thirdparty apps is something that ultimately to keep the payments theme inches forward and importantly to note is this i believe is about selling more iphones for a better User Experience and i think apple has a Business Model beyond iphones here where they can really start to take participate in a lot of transactions and so that starts to shift how you think about their payments model longer term. You seem worried. Well, you know, now we have the question around the naked pictures and look. Yeah. Security. Nobody should have you can change your password. What will you do if your fingerprint is stole snn. The other question from the consumer point of view is what is out there to protect us from ourselves . If we can that easily make payments that we can do, you know, how do we keep records . Hows all of that i feel like this is opening up a can of worms to get in more trouble perhaps if theyre not already disciplined how theyre depending. Every time it happens and a product comes out and legitimate concerns, it is swept away by the Christmas Holiday season ordering tide. Absolutely. I mean, i think certainly this move by apple is somewhat of an encrouchment on the banks. I think theyre going to be encroached by several other new technologies and you have to ask yourself when you talk about apple, does this move the ecosystem a little further . Does it get people into the e ecosystem and keep them there . Answer is probably yes. It might get a selloff of apple but the stock probably goes sideways. Well leave it right there for now. Thank you, everybody. Catch brian kelly coming up at 5 00 p. M. And also four stock moves you missed busy watching the product announcements from apple today. Our thanks to gene munster of cupertino this afternoon, as well. Federal reserve thinking the nations largest banks pose too big of a threat to the economy. The feds planning to impose tougher Capital Requirements on the Banking Industry, shrinking in size. Will it end up backfiring and hurt lending and the economy . Well talk about this and more next. Apple unveiling highly anticipated iphone 6 and apple watch and one shareholder on whether he is happy with the devices. We want to know whether youll buy the apple watch. Your chance to vote is straight ahead. Youre watching cnbc. So what were looking for is a way to plus our Accounting Firms mobile plan. And minus our expenses. Perfect timing. Were offering our bestever pricing on mobile plans for business. X good calculating kyle. Good job kyle. You just made partner. Our bestever pricing on mobile share value plans for business. Now with a 100 bill credit for every business line you add. Welcome back. Still tougher Capital Requirements on big banks in the u. S. In hopes to reduce the risk of such large Financial Firms that governors speaking in front of the Senate Banking committee to lay out the plan of a capital surcharge on the banks to protect against potential losses. We want to bring in Sallie Crawcheck and the panel now. The performance of the banks down 1 today generally seems to underscore that, you know, far from thinking with the mortgage settlements Regulatory Risk is behind the institutions and could be in front of them. Well, look. Whats very interesting is weve moved past the crisis and people expected, okay, that was it. We got through doddfrank. There are these paper cuts and some maybe gashes as the banks perceive them continuing to really push at the issue of are the banks safe enough . We have seen what they can do in an environment and in a Good Environment and we dont know after all the reforms what will they do in a very bad environment . This is a way of continuing to poke out that. It is interesting reading the commentary today of the five largest banks have close to 45 of u. S. Bank assets. In other words, the crash and the regulation afterwards didnt do anything to solve the too big to solve problem. Theyre a bigger percentage than before the crisis because they consolidated. I thought you were going to Say Something different and i thought you were going to say, well, theyve got more capital and theyre safer than they were and that is yes, okay. Are they safe enough . Thats the question. Right. You know, look. The liquidity issue was an issue. If not the issue in the downturn. So this is not a bad place to push. This is the channel when the fed looks at Monetary Policy and the economy and why the economy didnt do better is the Banking System one of the problems and is it a problem of their own making which is that every time having momentum in the economy, you have somebody out there pushing harder on them to try and rein them in . I think the fed is quite aware of that tradeoff and willing to make it. Janet yellen in terms of prevent and buffer the economy from the next financial crisis to shore up the Banking System now. And so, theyre recognizing that, yes, that may result in fewer loans or banks not having record profits but slightly less than record profits and worth it to do and not only is he saying might have to increase the capital surcharges, but also, that they may be increasing the designation so that fewer banks affected and careful to point out of a Community Bank carveout an aware of the special impact in the role they play in the economy. Its interesting with the midterms coming up and people wondering if the politicians use this still antagonism for the small ones in the backyard saying, public, go to them. I think what this is doing and helpful and helping consumers realize theres different types of banks out there and saying that Community Banks, should be a carveout for them and not in the voeker rule at all and i think consumers thought it is the same. Bank down the street the same as the big bank on wall street and same as a major retail bank and there are differences and if this helps consumers eventually figure out the differences thats a good thing. Heres an interesting question. Which is safer, is it the local Community Bank familiar and ive brought it outside of the evil Banking System or is it the u. S. Bank that whether we like it or not is basically too big to fail . Well, if youre too big to fail, you know, from a consumer perspective youre safer. I used to say may or may not be poor Public Policy but a hell of a marketing campaign. We are too big to fail. You have to back up here. We talk about capital cushions and talk by definition to shrink and back up for a second because you have equity, debt and shortterm debt. Each of the things if you raise equity, raising cash to lend. So you can still capital cushion . Its money that can be lent. It could in the short term take down the roe and takes down roe volatility and shareholders look over time and not a given year abe whats the roe through a cycle in not answered yet and the broader question whats shood for the shareholder may not always be good for the broader economy and they have to be looking that the. Well leave it right there. We have an earnings look with dom chu. What can you tell us . Two Companies Reporting earnings after the bell so far this afternoon. Palo alto networks. A number watched wall street estimates and revenue above estimates so palo alto networks, the stock up you can see about 3. 5 . A different story for criskrisp kreme doughnuts with a weaker than expected Second Quarter profit number and guidance below what analysts were expecting. That stock to currently see off session lows and down by 6 and palo alto up and in this case krispy kreme down in the afternoon. Back over to you. All right. Dom, thank you. The fed isnt just targeting the banks. Daniel turollo says writing new bills and bill berkeley is here to weigh in and the take on tax inversions coming up. Apple giving people what they want. The iphone getting a larger screen in addition to cool features and the advent of the apple watch, of course, just this afternoon. Was it enough to impress our next guest who owns apple shares . Well find out. But what if you could see more of what you wanted to know . With fidelitys new active trader pro investing platform, the information thats important to you is all in one place, so finding more insight is easier. Its your idea powered by active trader pro. Another way fidelity gives you a more powerful investing experience. Call our specialists today to get up and running. Chocolate, soybeans, thisand apricots. Made with what kind of chef comes up with this . A chef working with ibm watson, on the cloud. Ingredients are just data. Watson turns big data into new ideas. And not just for food. Watson is working with doctors and bankers to help transform their industries. Today theres a new way to work. And its made with ibm. Take and. Exhale. In. Aflac and a gentle wavelike motion. Aahhh ahhhhhh. Liberate your spine, ahhhahhhhhh aflac and reach, toes blossoming. Not that great at yoga. Yeah, but when i slipped a disk he paid my claim in just four days. Ahh four days . Yep. Find out how fast aflac can pay you, at aflac. Com. Welcome back. Apple and the stocks in the ecosystem with a wild ride today after the Company Announcing the iphone 6 and the apple watch. Dominic chu following the movers for us. Dom . Two pieces of hardware and a service if you will, the Apple Pay Service and the intraday chart so far, over the course of the day we saw some moves up and down. We finished the day lower and over the past year, up about 35 and an interesting dichotomy if you will. Apple on Product Launch days. So take you through the big ecosystem plays here. Take you through another chart here. Ebay up and also owns paypal and toward session lows today on the apple pay announcement, could be a big competitor for paypal Payment System and look at visa and mastercard. Those shares did go higher on the announcement and did finish lower. Thats the visa chart and xhastxhast mast mastercard. They have an apple iwatch. Garmin. Intraday, a huge move downward and then we kind of manage to get back the losses ale still garmin a big deal here and fossil group. Fashion accessories and watches, as well. See down lower on the day, as well. 2 and then a couple of big supplier suppliers. Making technology for motion technology. Right in the stuff in gyroscopes. Also perhaps Fingerprint Technology and perhaps a apple supplier. Saw them go up a little bit on speculation of being part of the system. And then gt advanced technologies, a big loser today down about 13 . They make the glass, the south africa five Crystal Display in the phones and a worry theyre not part of the iphone system. They may be part of the watches but we dont know whats going into the phones just yet and nobodys got them in their hands to take them apart. One of the stock that is took it on the chin down about 13 frs in todays trade. Yes, it did. Thank you. That big news out of cupertino today and we want to hear from you. Will you be buying the apple watch . Go to cnbc. Com vote right now to weigh in. Meantime, for more on the products and what it means for the companies, lets bring in our guests. Welcome to you both. We had a shareholder last hour saying he was lightening the position in apple from here. What is your what are you going to do with the shares . Sure. Ive been bullish, kelly, as you know all year. Im excited about whats happening here. Its a beautiful day. Also, size matters. Talk about three revolutionary things that happened. We have the best phone that ever came out. We got an iwatch and i have talked about before and called the apple watch and apple pay. We could go deeper into them but two revolutionary things thats really going to take the stock into the atmosphere. In other words, youre going to increase your position . I mean, talking about shares trading at an alltime high as you know better than anybody. 100 and change. Lower today. How confident are you in further gains from here . Im very confident. Its ap sl a longterm play and a part of our life. Everything we do. Right . From the home, from the car, to your wrist and also everybody has a phone or uses the Payment System now to check in at a hotel, check in at the airlines. Ill be increasing the position for the long term, yes. Alex, what about you . Changing a price target and recommendation on the stock and where dow i dont stand at the moment . He is right about apple today but i think its also fair to point out there werent really any surprises to point to. We knew the larger phones were coming and apple pay and a watch was coming. Theres a little bit of a disappointment not getting the watch until the beginning of next year and i think apple struggles a little bit with the critique of not having enough innovation. They got the big things right. The stock works higher from here and no reason for us to change the price target. Youre at 135. We heard that piper jaf ris at 120. Any cautionary signs, i mean, i wonder if theres anything you see that, yes, these are Product Launches anticipated. Mobile payments is going to change the they we do that type of business but are there any things that some investors should be wary about . Competitors will always pop up. Right . We all know google is in the market. A ton of smart watches already out there. We have fly different kinds from apple. Until the watch does come out, with the watch kit, et cetera, it is hearsay but a revolutionary products like the ipad, iphone and ipod. It is great. The apple watch is the first on the market we think is worth a look from a real consumer appeal standpoint and the payments with it is a real plus for apple so lets say that there was some advances on the innovation and nice for surprises today. Maybe something on the apple tv front, maybe other internet of things, applications. We did get a very solid iphone 6 refresh and a nice apple refresh on the table. I feel like we talked about the new things but not the core of the business. You know, the bulk of people who own apple iphone own 4s. Do you think that this iphone 6 is enough to get them to make the switch finally and buy a new phone . Alex . Certainly having the now 4. 7 and 55inch phones is a category entirely absent. One of the Fastest Growing aspects and not forget that china mobile turning on 4g services in china for the tooirs time. Apple is executing on the phone front and available in ten days. Thats a brilliant, fast time to market to put it a month ahead of samsung. Thats the plus category for apple and the suppliers. Dominic mentioning earlier. We like sky works in china playing off that. Knowles part of the voice activation for the new watch and phones, as well. Theres derivative supplier names to playoff, as well. Good day for tim cook. What does it tell us about the poststeve jobs apple and can they really innovate the way they used to . Yeah. I think, you know, best line i could give you here is we finally know what apple is cooking in the kitchen. Right in this is going on for a long time as tim has said and i think steve is proud right now and dancing in the grave and if he was alive right now he would be really excited about everything that happened today. Looks like 51 of people buying this apple watch. A chance to respond before we do. Well, i dont know about dancing that the juncture. Nice to have the watch in time for christmas. But yeah. A solid day for apple. Advancement like we talked about and nice to have the watch here. The first smartwatch for consumers to line up to buy. Maybe a little bit disappointing on the front but a good day. Thank you. Come on. You were dancing at the end with u2. Werent you dancing in come on. I know i was. Thank you guys. Coming up next, bill berkeley is here to tell us how hes putting money to work right now and what he thinks of washingtons war on tax inversions. If you are thinking of borrowing from the 401 k plan, stay tuned. It could cost you more than you think. Closing bell is back right after this. Welcome back. He is one of the most respected voices on wall street and Financial Services company focusing on the property and Casualty Insurance business and one of the latest in Corporate Leaders calling for changes to the u. S. Tax laws. With me now is bill berkeley, chairman and ceo of wr berkeley corporation. Welcome. Great to have you here. Thank you very much. The insurance industry, Warren Buffett, berkshire hath away in the tax inversion debate and whether Companies Shifting overseas should be allowed is patriotic, for example. I ask again, just because of the history of the insurance industry, your industry, one of the first to move offshore, as a representative of this industry, how do you feel about this practice for any American Company . I dont think taxes are a patriotic duty. Youre supposed to run your business to do the best you can and you follow the law. We think the tax laws in the United States should change so theres not a competitive advantage for those companies who are based offshore. Right now, theres a huge competitive advantage. Many of the Companies Offshore pay little or no federal income tax, even though the business they write or much of it originates in the u. S. , so they write the same business that i write and they pay no tax because they write it in the u. S. On their u. S. Company and then reinsure it offshore. Its unfair. For five years i have talked to people in the senate and the house. Everyone individually agrees on it. But no one gets together. They come on our program all the time. We see them not only on this channel, any channel, always talking saying we need the political will to get this done and never seems to happen. Is it your belief this is never really going to shap in a meaningful, substantive way . Every Insurance Company will be based offshore and those jobs will migrate and ultimately this very critical industry and a huge industry, millions of employees, hundreds of billions of dollars of revenue, will be based outside the United States. And its critical for our economy. But companies dont do business where they have the highest costs and in the u. S. Its a problem and no one in washington wants to address it. What about people who will say, listen. Whether its an Insurance Company, a food chain, whomever, if they lower the tax base, they will be profitable, higher more people in the u. S. So in the end, you know, the american wins even though the address shifted overseas. What is your response to that . Ultimately, important businesses need to be within the u. S. The Insurance Business is a critical business. When the issues arose with the world trade center, just not so long ago, there was debate. Should that be covered . And then, an Insurance Company based in the u. S. Stepped forward and said, yes, coverage should apply. All of a sudden everyone fell in line. I wonder if that was a Company Based somewhere else whether that would have the same response. It is important, it is a critical industry. To the wellbeing of our country. And the fact is we need a Business Base that is taxed fairly. The structure of the United States tax laws favors Foreign Companies. It couldnt possibly have been the intent of our congress to write a tax law that made Foreign Companies benefit over u. S. Companies. I hear many investors today saying they think the only real way to solve this is e almost nate the u. S. Corporate tax and find other ways for making up for that lost revenue and perhaps actually increase revenue of other sources. What do you think the right answer is here to Corporate Tax reform . Its always easy to say you shouldnt pay tax. I dont agree with that. We need a unified tax code that everyone pays their fair share. But you cant have structural loopholes that lets one group do the same business and pay no tax and another group pay tax. What Warren Buffett said is its not fair for my secretary to pay less more tax than me. That goes for corporations, it is not fair for foreign Insurance Company that is do the same business in the United States to pay no tax or less tax than i pay doing that business. And i just before we have to go want to get your sense of where that should fall in terms of priorities. If im a regulator and i have issues of too big to fail and we heard about talking about cracking down on the insurers, as well, with regard to actual requirements and the issues of too big to fail, ive got the low Interest Rate environments and the challenges to the economy, i have the tax inversion, so in terms of the most to least important, i mean, what do you think has got to be the number one issue if im a congress or senate regulators to handle one thing at a time right now . Well, you need financially Strong Enterprises in the banking and insurance industry. By and large, Insurance Companies arent really for the most part too big to fail. If you look at the problem, aig had, it wasnt in their Insurance Business. No consequential Insurance Company had a problem in the Insurance Business. Im not sure i agree with the Federal Reserve but they have to make that decision. I think putting everyone on a level Playing Field is a critical issue and it will raise billions and billions of dollars of revenue which helps other things. Bill berkeley, we so appreciate your perspective on this as mentioned you have been one of the people trying to draw attention to this practice for years. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Bill berkeley. Dominic chu with movers now for us. Dom . Kelly, first of all, not everything was about apple today. Right . Talk about the big movers previously in the previous session here with regard to the big names and some of them m a of annnys. A 30plus percent premium over the Closing Price on monday. They make that great mac and cheese in the fancy boxes and natural food stocks, all moving higher because, of course, that sentiment carries up other stocks, as well. Tough day for mcdonalds. Hate 52week low after reporting weaker than expected drops in august global sales on continued problems specifically with the chinese suppliers and hitting correction territory down about 11. 5 from the highs in may. Mobile eye gaining ground. Raising the price target for this particular company saying that the maker of auto Collision Avoidance technology, technology for self driving cars, right . Likely land toyota as a client in the future and avon fell on news that the cfo left for baker hughes. K kelly, a lot of big names, names we talk about all the time, moving in the session, not just about apple today. Back over to you. Dom, thats right. Thank you so much. Apple is red hot on the web today in the wake of the iphone 6 and watch and apple pay and people flocking to cnbc. What theyre looking for, well tell you next. And if youre wondering whens the best time to borrow against your 401 k , the simple answer is never. Top ten 401 k nonos. Well be right back. In a world thats changing faster than ever, we believe outshining the competition tomorrow quires challenging your Business Inside and out today. At cognizant, we help forwardlooking Companies Run better and run different to give your customers every reason to keep looking for you. So if youre ready to see opportunities and see them through, we say lets get to work. Because the future belongs to those who challenge the present. Welcome back. Apples introduction of a new product line with iphones, mobile payments, you guessed it. Burning cnbc today and for the complete breakdown joined by the sites managing editor, allen wasler. I love this again trying to figure out how successful it will be, the website interest is one early component. Theres a lot of interest there and threw a saddle on the pony and ran it all the way through the day. I had three traffic alerts while apple was doing its thing today and this is the track beat scanner here and people piling in. Live blog of the event, 108,000 individual readers. Thats not counting them repeating. Thats just the unique that is we had right there. We set a new record for people off the home page into a single story. The apple live blog. 1,100 a minute. Think about that. Thats a lot of clicking of people going in there. I know you love the ticker symbols. But the apple lookups, almost 20 of the total lookups so far today, 10 times more than the next higher one which is facebook and polls like you have been doing on the show. Those are realtime and ours are historical. 56 saying try out the new iphone. Yeah, they might try out the mobile Payment System. 35 saying that theyd be willing to try out the watch. Go figure on that. Finally, you know i love slideshows. We have slideshows of the different products. Iphone 6, iphone 6 plus and people love the new stuff. Oh yeah. A great day on the website with us and apple, kelly. Great work with you guys. I was going through the content myself. Im laughing thinking about the conversation we had about, you know, the very are we sure about the safety features and the security of some of this stuff and but people, well, it starts with the slideshow and then wearing the apple watch. People want to what theyre in for and then see if they can afford 350. Buy the watch and then figure out whether or not they really want that type of convenience. And consider the Security Issues with it. It takes sometime and the way of the future. Its just a matter of making sure that consumers are confident theyll be able to be secure in the payments. Probably see a little dip in productivity today. Thats true. Bizarrely went down one day. I know a way to make it go up. Did they search the search function in mail on the iphone . Oh. That takes forever. Mine was the nine brand that tried to hijack apples big day and chilis with a fake picture of the i guac. The i fresh. I think the first time that apple really started to show up on an aggregate business a year or two ago and launched, might have been the end of last year, an increase in october retail sales, sure enough, the tech category. Guess theres the same kind of impact this time around. Its going to distort the data. Adding to the cpi basket, the iwatch, then you know its really mainstream. Indicator jokes. If youre thinking about taking a loan out from the 401 k , think again. Why borrowing from the Retirement Plan could be one of the biggest financial mistakes to make. Tomorrower, Alan Greenspan with his take on the feds move for tougher Capital Requirements across the industry. Dont miss it tomorrow 4 00 p. M. Eastern. Well be right back. He helps looks after all our money. Kid do you pay him . Dad of course. Kid how much . Dad i dont know exactly. Kid what if youre not happy . Does he have to pay you back . Dad nope. Kid why not . Dad it doesnt work that way. Kid why not . Vo are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed . Wealth management at Charles Schwab sometimes they just drop in. Always obvious. Cme group can help you navigate risks and capture opportunities. We enable you to reach Global Markets and drive forward with broader possibilities. Cme group how the world advances. Welcome back. If youre strapped for cash and are thinking of tapping your requirement 401 k , its not okay to do that. Rick edelman from edelman Financial Services is here with his reasons why you should never make that move. You can also read about it on cnbc. Com. It was the never that caught our attention. Why is this such a bad move . Because this is your retirement account. This is not i want to get out of debt account or any other account. This is designed for your requirement. If you pull the money out of your retirement, its not borrowing the money. Its a withdrawal. That money is removed from your account. Its no longer invested, its no longer growing for your retirement. If you pull that money out, you will regret it. There are people who would argue, in a pinch youll get a better Interest Rate and youre borrowing from yourself and you can pay yourself back. Thats a big myth. Youre not paying yourself pack. Youre paying the plan back and the Interest Rate youre paying is higher than you think. There are fees associated with it that they usually dont tell you about. You dont think to ask about. And most important of all, when you put the money back into the plan, youre going to end up paying taxes twice because youre putting the money back into the plan out of your paycheck, which is already taxed. When you withdraw the money in retirement, you get taxed all over again. Every dollar you withdraw is going to cost you about 70 cents in taxes. Its a horrible idea. Wow, sharon . But its appealing to a lot of workers who say, my company says i can do this, this is the money that i have on hand. What really worries me are those that are then leaving their jobs, whether they lose their job or they move on and they cash out of their 401 k completely. And were seeing about a third of participants in 401 k plans doing that. That is a significant amount of pain that they are causing to themselves and were talking about an average of 14,000 of a 401 k that youre cashing out. Youre losing out on all of what rick talked about and you lose out on the fact that there are many gains you may see in the market to come. Weve been talking about apple all hour. Apple is the largest holdinging in many peoples 401 k s, and therefore, if you take that money out of your 401 k whether for a loan or youre cashing out, youre missing on those gains. Heres the interesting thing. If you make it tougher and increase the penalties for people to do this, it would probably mean they would continue to take more of a hit. Is it better to make it harder and more punitive or make it less so if people are doing this in so common a way anyhow . I would prefer personally that we eliminate the borrowing provision except for hardship so that people cannot treat their 401 k like a piggybank or a checking account. The problem is employees have made it clear to their employers, if you dont let me borrow, i wont contribute at all in the first place. Which means people wont save for retirement. The key here is education. People have to understand the results of a t. Rowe price survey. For every 10,000 you borrow. You reduce the balance at retirement by 100,000. 10 grand costs you 100 grand. People need to understand so they dont borrow in the first place. And it seems like a great perk until you lose your job. Then you have to pay back the whole thing. And you incur the taxes and the penalties. People dont realize that 10,000 loan after penalties and taxes on top of that, if youre in the 35 tax bracket, youve lost 4,500 of that 10,000 loan you took out. You dont have that money. You needed it for a reason. Now youre in even greater financial distress because you took out that loan. What about people who are in an extreme circumstance . 43 of could not cover an extreme medical cost were the need to arise. Quick last word, rick . What should they do . I agree completely. We need to make sure people are educated and that employers are providing the training needed so people are benefiting from their 401 k , not getting harmed. Where should they borrow . If youre in a medical emergency, what should you do . Find the money somewhere else. Turn to friends and family. Use credit cards. Use home equity, if necessary. Adjust your lifestyle. Talk with a Financial Planner who can give you innovative ways to get yourself out of this mess without sacrificing and ruining your future retirement. Thank you, rick edelman. Thank you to the panel as well for covering all the ground we did this hour. Theres plenty more on this topic, cnbc. Com. Fast money begins right after this. Have a great day, everybody. When change is in the air you see things in a whole new way. Its in this spirit that ing u. S. Is becoming a new kind of company. One that helps you think differently about whats ahead, and whats possible when you get things organized. Ing u. S. Is now voya. Changing the way you think of retirement. You just have to win 70 of your points at net. And keep unforced errors under 10 . On the ibm cloud, the us open analyzes 41 million data points from 8 years of competition to uncover key insights. Data can help show you how to win, no matter what business youre in. Today theres a new way to work. And its made with ibm. But what if you could see more of what you wanted to know . With fidelitys new active trader pro investing platform, the information thats important to you is all in one place, so finding more insight is easier. Its your idea powered by active trader pro. Another way fidelity gives you a more powerful investing experience. Call our specialists today to get up and running. Fast money starts right now. Live from the Nasdaq Market site in new york citys times square, im melissa lee. Your traders are tim seymour, brian kelly, Karen Finerman and guy adami. Apples big reveal, the Company Announcing the iphone 6 and 6 plus. Plus two products without the i moniker. The stock on a wild ride today. Rallying during a presentation but closing in the red. By the way, it was a big market day outside the apple. Our traders give you four things that happened while you were watching apple