make the case for his policies, even if his base doesn't like it. the president can do it, it just doesn't seem to be where he wants to put his political capital. >> paul, maybe the president won't make you a convert to the program, but in the political forum we saw today, the chairman of the house and intelligence committee, michele bachmann going after mr. snowden, and taking the president's side. >> yeah, if you looked at that hearing today, i saw the coverage of it. the president is winning. if you look at the polls, the president is winning. he keeps pushing a couple of points, nobody is listening to your phone calls and nobody is reading your e-mails. and then the checks and balances. that is critical. we are a nation of laws again, under bush and cheney, we were a nation of men, not a nation of law. we were doing things that were not authorized by the congress and supervised by the courts.