of gross negligent. what more -- my office is in a historic fire engine place. i've got nothing but love for firefighters. but this is the definition of gross negligence. >> jeff, do you see it that way? >> no, i don't. look, for example, the chronology is important here. and you know, because we're dealing with television here we have a limited amount of time. i would want to see how all of those tapes go together. first the foam is not on the ground, then it's on the ground. look, i don't think it is anything but tragic that this child died. but let's remember who killed this child. it's the incompetent pilots at asiana who couldn't land on a clear day. that's who's responsible here. [ overlapping speakers ] >> wait, the investigation subsequently of this crash showed that cultural differences and curl issues within the cockpit that the pilot was concerned about glare off the runway but didn't want to wear