simulator, it really can't be done. >> the actual numbers of 45,000 and 23,000, martin, may be slightly off. they sort of admit that the radar capability of the malaysians might not have been as strong. but the fundamental point of going up and coming down, do the two of you believe that would have been possible in these circumstances albeit not to the extremes? >> mitchell? i'm going to put it to you. >> that is definitely in the realm of the extreme. going up and down like that, i mean, flying any airplane is all about very smallers smooth corrections. you have passengers in back. you want to make things as smooth as uneventful. going up and down like a roller coaster, no. >> we should point out the information about it going up and down more gradually, that information comes from signals that were sent to satellite as