incredible these allegations. these new numbers from the v.a. that show great progress in reducing wait times and hiring new employees and trying to address the needs of these veterans still waiting, i mean are they to be believed? >> reporter: you know from the beginning of this scandal, we've been hearing across the country of this entrenched v.a. bureaucracy, hidden wait lists and come up with what i would call it funny math to show just how great things are when in fact they weren't. now we're hearing in some places it's continuing. no doubt progress has been made anderson but it's really difficult to trust any numbers coming from the v.a. itself. that's why i think today's announcement of an outside advisory council is a good step i think. >> so the four days that the doctor said to congress are they saying it's four days once you include not just new patients coming to the california v.a.? >> reporter: you know we tried to get an explanation. they simply won't talk to us. they won't explain their numbers