he's doing something that offends or takes advantage of the system, exploits things. and i think that this is the first time we've ever had -- it's a blockbuster that's not going to work, but i think it's right to call him on it. >> robert, is that a fair criteria? >> i don't know of the walking abuse of power standard under the constitution. whatever james madison might think about it, you know, seriously. with regard to the phone call, you know, evidence at some point does matter. as much as i hear about trying to turn what was in the face of the call a request for assistance with regard to an investigation as equivalent to a demand that was coercive, that had conditions in order to dig dirt up on a political opponent, they are not the same thing. >> but what if it wasn't a quid pro quo? >> and an attempt to try to make them the same thing, i would suggest to you respectfully, if