has that ever worked before? >> it doesn't work well. first of all, it's a very old statute they're relying on written back in 1857. the language for contempt or the action is a willful default. makes a willful default. isn't clear even what that means. particularly in bannon's situation, he's acting on the advice of counsel. i think this stuff they'll have to debate in the house and committee as to whether this raises to the level of contempt, but i think that's what they want to do. i don't know that it will stick in the department of justice, which has clearly the option as to whether they'll take it to a grand jury or not. so they'll opine on that before they take further action. >> john, in your mind, is there anything that could compel bannon to cooperate at this point? >> there sure is. as we talked about before. i don't understand where the house of representatives has not gotten it own rules in order,