this strikadministration. it's a very ugly thing to say. understand we had the official u.s. foreign policy that officials were trying to execute and then you had this shadow effort by rudy giuliani with the support of other actors like ambassador sondland and donald trump. and they were undermining the official u.s. foreign policy in pursuit of totally illicit objectives. >> why is it shadow? if the president is saying in one way or another explicitly or implicit implicitly, you do what rudy says, there's nothing shadow about it. he has his tex messat messages, walking into the oval office with rex tillerson, asking for prisoner swaps. it was all done in plain daylight. >> except rudy giuliani was never a public employee. he was acting as the president's