in, to some degree, the criminal allegations that are currently outstanding against them. it's a remarkable strategy that could have negative impact on both the president and mr. giuliani. >> now another discovery today. we've seen moving goalposts by the republicans. you're not politicians so there's no reason to debate what their duty is he or not. first there's know quid pro quo. i believe that's a red herring. this is a political prosecution, i don't think you're checking boxes. even if you wanted one, it seems pretty clear. this idea, ukraine didn't know, jim. this idea of a pressure campaign, they had no idea. now it comes out after a first call, which they have not released the transcript of, they released the transcript of the second call between trump and zelensky but after the first one, zelensky met with his team reportedly and said we're getting dragged into an american election here, i don't like this. significance? >> it's immensely significant because they were -- they were trying to get ukraine to get involved in the american political process and they were withholding aid and withholding