pressuring ukraine to give him these political value objects before they got what they wanted. how will you feel? >> there's four things going on right here. >> wait a minute. how will you feel? >> i haven't -- i'm not going to speculate on things that haven't happened yet. i haven't seen -- >> if he says -- >> i've seen selective leaks -- >> it's not a leak when the guy puts out a sworn statement. sondland isn't a leak. these aren't anonymous. they aren't leaks, fred. you know. these are real people saying real things. >> there was a statement by this fellow, but we don't know what happened in closed-door testimony. we hear from the republicans that this guy was destroyed -- >> what does that tell you? let's be fair. both sides leak like a sieve. so this guy gets destroyed and yet nothing comes out about what was destroyed from his testimony. >> well, it seems to me that there's two sides here. we have to see the whole testimony. >> of course. you're going to have a set of hearings after this just as happened in the past. >> no. they're not going to be the same.