usually the underlying decision comes into effect unless you get what's called a stay. and that means the d.c. circuit, the appellate court says you, white house, have a likelihood of success on the merits. you are so likely to win on appeal that we're going to hold off on this ruling. it's pretty unusual, and i think it's unusual in this case. so what don mcgahn's lawyer, william burke, means is that unless he gets -- the white house gets a stay -- and that should be known within a week or two -- mcgahn's going to testify. and that really changes the calendar in a very dramatic way because if he were going to wait for the appellate process to be resolved, that could be months. this is probably just a couple of weeks. >> not impossible in other words that there is no stay, is what you're saying. >> i think it is likely there is no stay, which means mcgahn would have to testify sooner rather than later, before