risks are negligible. >> are we then just meaning the united states prolonging the inevitable here about getting involved directly somehow? >> i think that's right. the fact is we still have wishful thinking about how quickly this is going to end. some people -- >> in the meantime people are losing lives every single day. >> exactly right. we're going to be in a position where we may have to make some difficult decisions. things that seem beyond the pale right now like a no fly zone, after tens of thousands of ukrainians are killed and the u.s. population, the european population demand action is not going to seem as unreasonable. so doing, making calculated risk informed decisions now will be better than letting this unfold, trying to sit on the sidelines, and then being dragged into something that is even more consuming because the russians