a top-line number. progressives have said they wanted 6 trillion. they came down to 3.5. now senator joe manchin kyrsten sinema are looking lower than that even refusing to say what that top line number is. president biden tried to press them in a private meeting, how much will you support? they still haven't given that number. there are disagreements on health care. do they try to expand medicare for all like progressives want? do they use money to shore up obamacare, the aca? do they do free college that progressives want? there are a lot of things they disagree on. thursday, by this thursday vote, progressives want to see some sort of framework that joe manchin and kirsten sinema will commit to a vote and say, i will vote for this. they are so far away from that and things are tense right now. >> we don't know exactly what they want. we don't know what number they're comfortable with. the president doesn't either. so what's motivating these senate moderates?