principal benefits, the first is that he's shown how pore us this -- if a 29-year-old working in hawaii who's a high school dropout can download this kind of stuff, then thousands of other people or perhaps tens of thousands of other people are caping of doing it. it was going to happen anyway. so that's useful from a national security point of view. but i think far more importantly, he's educated us about the degree to which our lives are monitored, chronicles, stored up in clouds, cross tabulated, that even those who are very sanguine about the need for intelligence have been surprised by it. my point really is that, whatever snowden's personal motive, whether he's a criminal or -- the net effect of this, i think will stimulate a debate that we need to have at this time of frighteningly changing