havens, assistance, training? you had this fantastic piece in "the new york times" magazine which basically outlined the ways in which it seemed very likely that the pakistani government knew about bin laden. what do you think pakistan's role will be once we start pulling out? they're going to try to fill that vacuum probably. >> i think it's already clear they're determined to see a resurgence of the taliban. they're supporting them. they're encouraging them. there's been a spate of attacks. i was in kabul two days ago. we had a suicide bombing almost every day that i was there in the last week, and that's all coming from pakistan. they're all going in. that's clearly what needs to be looked at very strongly because the pakistanis have not finished their war, and what they want is through a proxy force to dominate affairs in afghanistan and they're still going to continue. >> and that force, of course, is the taliban for pakistan. >> the taliban. and actually al qaeda have shown they were protecting and hiding bin laden.