new upstarts. you could easily argue that bill gates game plan was world domination. >> these guys can be taken! but the only way we are going to take them is by studying them. know what they know. do what they do. watch them, watch them, watch them. take every one of their good ideas and make it one of our good ideas. >> microsoft came down and essentially said to netscape, hey, you know, we can be friends, or we can be enemies, and if we are going to be friends, that's great. you'll get all the advantages of working with microsoft in 1 million ways, and you'll be on the home screen of a lot of computers. or we can compete. if we are going to compete, we are going to do whatever is required to kill you. >> some people believe that you have an infinite appetite for power, that you are the embodiment of someone who says, i wanted all, and you want to eat up your competitors. is that unfair? >> it -- it doesn't ring any bells with me.