all the difference. is a message like this good for the parks service, good for denali to encourage people to come out and chase the wild or do you look at it being the wrong message because people need to be more prepared or cautious? >> it's interesting. probably a little mixed. i would expect a lot of younger folks have been introduced to wild places through just looking into the wild christopher mccandles experience. on the other hand, what we try to help with is when people come out to experience in the appropriate manner, this doesn't speak, leave no trace in wilderness and sorts of things. it's interesting how different people find wilderness and what that tipping point is for a person that grew up in an urban environment and introduced to wild places very young. >> i grew up camping with my family. where did that change happen, where did the shift happen?