the legal part of the military, they agreed with him and they said, this should not be happening, it doesn't produce any valuable information. and not only that, it doesn't go with the values of our nation. it shouldn't be happening. they agreed with his assessment. this is in 2002. but the civilians ignored that. and then came the torture memos, which so-called legalized this. >> the only way this works, this type of disclosure in the name of transparency, is if you own it, own what it was, and own what the change is. that doesn't seem to be being done effectively now because of this parsing of the word "torture." is this working as a form of transparency by the u.s., or just hurting their reputation? >> well look, i think there are many reasons why director brennan may not have used that precise word. i spoke to the senior u.n. reporter on this who says what happened is quote a criminal conspiracy. and that all of those, not just