it will have to be a heavy price to pay for it. >> now, we're about a week away from these key talks that are set to begin in europe between the u.s. and russia. one of the things that president will talk to zelensky about today is this sort of strategy as the u.s. enters these critical negotiations. >> yeah. these are critical talks, nic. i'm wondering how russian officials are viewing this. kevin talked about how the white house has rejected these demands, sometimes called threats, from putin, what he wants ukraine banned from ever joining nato, ruling out expansion, and i'm wondering how russian officials are viewing the upcoming call with biden and zelensky today. >> yeah. the russians are calling these security proposals. they look on paper quite like demands as you say, that ukraine is not allowed to join nato, that nato should roll back its