know who did and don't know who didn't. so two guys, no, that's not a big enough sample size. >> bob what about the argument, there were so many people doing it, how can we be sure who was and who wasn't? >> we don't know for sure. we have more evidence than some people and a lot more than we do on others. go read the book of the brothers, go listen to people who talked about clemens and know what he did. we know a lot more about some people than others. as i said to you earlier, john, we do not know all for sure how many juiced pitchers, pitched to juiced batters. we do not know that. i understand that. it is -- i hate this, this has taken all the fun out of being a voter. this this only be about baseball and once again, i put the blame on the hall. all they have to do is tell us vote on the numbers, period. and then we will be comfortable. >> i will say, if bud selig is in, boy, that is the tough pill