>> so what about the other men who credible witnesses say that they were sexually abused by team epstein and team ghislaine? >> that's interesting, john, hold on a second. i want to ask you about that. just one second, because we had heard for years there is this alleged black book or this e ou trial, and we were going to hear about what they did on jeffrey epstein's island and his private plane, but that didn't happen. is it possible that sort of stuff is more solacious than reality? >> yes, it's much more solacious than reality, but he was in contact with everybody, including a bunch of people who never met epstein, or if they did meet epstein never saw the dark side of him. and it is fundamentally unfair