could somehow try to leverage them to get what he wants. so he's been doing this for years. he's been trying to separate nato allies, trying to separate the west from other western countries. that is what putin is good at. and right now he's watching to see how much room he has to maneuver, i think. >> steve one more question to you, put on your cia hat if you would for us. when you hear that there are intercepted communications and that russian intelligence operatives are saying that this invasion would be much deadlier and worst and costlier than vladimir putin thinks, how is that possible? how could vladimir putin not know that? >> well, the world of russian security, russian intelligence services and russian advisers to the kremlin is a very byzantine one and there is a lot of different ways to message putin, whether you sit right next to him at meetings or whether or not your a low level person who doesn't necessarily have daily access to him.