and his family members. so if that is the case, what are the circumstances in which intelligence officials would miss all of that? would they only know if a family member had reported it? if they hadn't, there's no other way of detecting? >> well, fredricka, what we're hearing is very consistent with what in 2007 the nypd studied in the landmark report on radicalization in the west. one of the first signatures you see when someone is radicalizing is moving away from their families or cultural heritage, and there off season a divide between family members. so a mother, a father, a brother, sister, they're often the first ones to detect that their family member is moving away from them. now, the problem is they care about these people so they're hesitant to turn them in or go to law enforcement. and that may be one of the reasons why law enforcement and intelligence were unaware. the father is trying to turn around his son without going to the fbi. >> so they're torn.