television. but she did, anyway, and she went on to say it disturbed her that snowden was given a chance to tell his side of the story. now, that is an extreme example. but all across the cable dial this week, i heard a lot of skepticism about snowden. i'm sure you did, too. a congressional aide here, a former government official there. i did not hear enough from his supporters. so let's hear from one right now. i'm sure you know his name, daniels ellsburg. he was the pentagon's whistle blower four years ago and he said snowden did the right thing. it's remarkable he waited a whole year to give an interview, and they said that was on purpose because he wanted the interview to be about mass surveillance, not about the man himself. do you think he accomplished his goal? >> yes, i do. i think that he needed to be out of the country in order to do what he has done, which is to guide several reporters that he's dealt with, bart gellman,