why? >> from the statistical standpoint, all polls are estimates there is a range. 5.2 suspect necessarily more than 5.1, yet politically it has a huge impact. so there's -- what we are seeing here in the use of these polls, there's a big distinction in terms of whether you make the debate but stat test delicious's no difference. >> let's look at the cutoff from thursday, between ohio governor between john kasich, he according to fox had a 3.2% approval rating -- support rather and former texas governor rick perry had 1.8%. how big a difference would that actually be? it sounds like it is not very much. >> it could have been flipped and in our national poll that we did do with mcclatchy, we asked electability question, who runs better against hillary clinton, perry ran better than kasich? who has a better favorability rating in terms of republicans, perry was actually higher. >> perry to go to the 5 p.m. debate instead of the 9 p.m. debate. cnn will have everybody in primetime, you say a better way than doing it, rather than an afternoon and debate. >> don't have 6 million viewers