it, including working at home. every aspect of society which is already headed in that direction, already addicted to a lot of these things, it's a necessity now for pretty much everybody. >> that's a very good person. in-person conferences is coming back. ces is about to happen, the big tech expo. is there interesting hardware on the horizon? or is it all about software and how we use the apps? >> apps is the center of the university. there is interesting stuff happening around ar and vr. meta has been trying to push that with oculus. apple is going to weigh in. snapchat is working on glasses. there's all kinds of areas. it's not quite ready for primetime. you've seen a lot of ads for oculus. it's like let's put this on and look kind of terrible. >> with the goggles or something. >> yes. you're not going to see any at ces necessarily. it's a direction people are