he didn't care. he didn't want it. this is even before it was going to be a committee. when it was going to be an independent commission and when you, you know, when you play that game, sometimes it can come back and you end up losing it. >> yeah, and that is the game that's being played with him now. charlie dent, so what, round three, how will it be different? >> i don't think it is different than round two but we're at this point of the standoff and somebody is going to have to blink and i don't think those 19 guys are going to blink. i mean these guys are -- these guys are very ideological, almost fanatical. >> any motivation for them, i mean, abby phillip, folks in d.c. were talking about what committees they get on. doesn't seem like that's a priority for a lot of them. >> no, i've always felt this group when i served they just wanted to sow chaos in the house. i thought there was annihilistic side to this group. they didn't want anything. they just, you know --