foreigners? what's the harm? >> yeah. my concern is this is vast. it hasn't been proven that it works. uniquely valuable intelligence hasn't been proven to disrupted plots. and finally, it's only another step to take ta computer data involving human beings and taking a further look at it. it's the scale of this that really concerns me and the fact that the american public doesn't know about it. the american public decides this is okay, then that's where we can be. but right now it's been basically a secret program, the law hasn't been shared in the way it's being applied. that's what i've been pushing for the last few years. >> now, the dni has said that this program has in fact thwarted terrorist attacks. mike rogers of the house intelligence committee says he knows specifically of an attack thwarted through the phone program now we're talking about. you don't believe that? you haven't seen that as a member of the intelligence committee? >> i think the data is unclear.