>> i look over and i see like hair being pulled, and all the [ bleep ], i'm like, oh, my god, how do i get in? >> got the critics asking, well, why are people watching that reality show? why are they watching the show? because they're entertained. you're never going to meet someone that's going to say to you, you know, i was watching "the bachelor" last night, i loved it, but i wish i was watching a great drama. >> karen. >> i thought you would never ask. >> you don't need to call it a guilty pleasure. just call it a pleasure. it's something you love watching. it could be a reality show, could be a drama, sitcom, documentary. whatever it is, great tv comes in many forms.