concerns about the state of corruption in ukraine and the president's prioritization of getting the europeans to contribute more to security sector assistance. >> and did he directly explain to the ukrainians that those -- that those were the actual reasons for the hold or was he just commenting on general concerns of the president? >> i don't know that he necessarily acknowledged a hold. we -- he mentioned we were reviewing the assistance and that is the way i heard it. that is the way i would characterize it. and those were the points he raised to help president zelensky understand where we were in our process. >> and to your knowledge, though, on sort of the staff level, as the coordinator of the interagency process, you were not aware of any review of the ukrainian security assistance money, were you? >> well, we were -- we had been running a review.