is is all this surveillance -- assuming that the zazi plot would not have been uncovered without this surveillance program, is that enough? or do they need to be more than just one? and that is a discussion difficult to fix out right here. but intelligence officials would say if you save one life with these programs, why not? >> well that's a reasonable point. the question is will some -- ten years down the road will the fact your internet data and phone data be used in some way that, you know, we may not agree with right now. i think that's the larger problem. of course there are safeguards and we heard some about that right now. phone data only kept for five years. clearly there's a lot of careful people monitoring this system. but that said, it wouldn't be the first time in american history that this kind of government power has been abused eventually in some shape or form. >> the wiretapping of martin luther king jr. started out as a legitimate security concern.