changed between 2015 and 2019, obviously it's donald trump. and i think karen, you know, is pretty much right on in terms of where this goes. and i have to say there was a time in 2015 when i think nikki haley believed that you could get ahead in the republican party by being a compassionate conservative, that maybe she could win the presidency by bringing together diverse american said and soccer moms and everybody else behind her. and now i don't think she believes that anymore. i think she believes you have to be trumpy -- >> she was one of the few members of the trump administration to make it back out with her reputation intact. is she trying to get back in? >> except she's the one running back. it's a burning house and she's running into it. it's stunning. so she makes it through this amazing event in south carolina, this tragedy, this horrific shooting, actually comes out of