Is a threat to democracy . Well, to our system, you know, the assaults on the institutions starting with my own, the Intelligence Community and his characterization of us as nazis. The commentary he has made about the judiciary, and individual judges. The assault on the bureau are examples which are not constructive for our country. General clapper, i appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Very tough words from General Clapper there. If you are just joining us now, lets quickly lay out the top story tonight. The riveting testimony, did he make the case for the Obstruction Of Justice . And well get reaction from theIntelligence Community, and first, dana bash with all the key moments. Reporter the former fbi director under oath and unvarnished, called the president who fired him, a liar. The administration then chose to defame me by saying that the organization was in disarray. That it was poorly led, that the work force had lost confidence in its leaders. Those were lies, plain and simple. Using the l word more than once. I was honestly concerned he may lie about the nature of our meeting and thought it would be really important to document. With a flair for the dramatic that he is known for, james comey tried to describe the fateful moment with the president , when the president kicked everybody out, and had a conversation with comey. My impression was i needed to document every word spoken, my
stunningly, comeys testified showed that he asked about realtime conversations. I woke up on monday night, it didnt dawn on me, there may be corroboration for our conversation, there could be a tape. And the judgment was i needed to get that out into the public square. So i asked a friend of mine to share the content with a reporter, i thought that may prompt conversation with counsel. That is a stark illustration of how seasoned he is in the ways of washington. What was not standard washington behavior, argued comey, was a president asking an fbi director for what he took as a loyalty pledge. And i could be wrong, but my common sense told me what is going on here is he is looking to get something in exchange for granting my request to stay on
the job. Throughout his nearly threehour testimony, comey revealed several nuggets about the fbi Criminal Probe now in the hands of special counsel robert mueller. Do you think the president was trying to obstruct justice or just seek for a way for mike flynn to save face, given that he was already fired. General, at that time there was an open criminal investigation of his statements in connection with the russian contacts and the contacts themselves. And he hinted at information not known about Attorney General jeff sessions. Our discussions were he was close to and inevitably going to recuse himself. For a variety of reasons, we discussed incidents that i couldnt discuss in an open setting that would make the continued investigation into the
russian investigation problematic. And comey told the president he was not being investigated. Comey revealed he handed over his memos about his conversations with trump to the special counsel, which could mean now the president is being investigated for Obstruction Of Justice. And dana joins us. Now, director comey also had fascinating details and very damning details about then Attorney GeneralLoretta Lynch, and the way she asked him to not reveal the context. Basically, what he said and remember, of course, james comey was criticized in a big way by democrats and even some republicans for the way he handled the clinton email investigation. He said that the obama Attorney General then basically, his boss, Loretta Lynch, directed him not to call it an investigation, but then call it a matter, which he said confused and concerned him. He also talked about the matter that the Clinton Campaign was using to describe. So thecolluding this is a bomb on lynch He Didnt Show Director Comey in the best light because he agreed to call it a matter. He didnt stantd up and say no, its an investigation, it makes me queasy but im going to do it. Thank you, dana, i spoke with her earlier this evening. Senator feinstein, what was the key takeaway from your view on the Comey Testimony Today . My key takeaway, the fbi has lost a good man and good leader. That is my takeaway. I think its pretty clear he
refused to lay off of the flynn investigation. He refused to raise the cloud or stop the Russia Investigation. And he refused to pledge loyalty to a president and for that he got fired. And that is really too bad. That is not what the country is about. And the fbi should be separate. And it should function based on law. And not based on the political nature of a presidency. I want to play one of your exchanges with mr. Comey about that February 14thOval Office Meeting when director comey said the president asked him to drop the flynn investigation. Here is the question. Youre big, youre strong. I know the oval office. And i know what happens to people when they walk in. There is a certain amount of intimidation. But why didnt you stop and say mr. President , this is wrong . I cannot discuss this with you . That is a great question, maybe if i were stronger i would have. I was so stunned by the conversation that i just took it in. And the only thing i could think to say because i was playing in my mind because i could remember every word he said. I was playing in my mind what should my response be and that is why i very carefully chose the words. And look, i have seen the tapes. Should he have done more in that moment or even in the aftermath, should he have alerted more people about it or come to congress . Well, i do think he should have said look, mr. President , this is inappropriate, i cant discuss this with you. We can talk about other things but i cant talk about this. Do you believe the white house has a Taping System . I would sure like to see it if they have it. And we may do something about
trying to see if they do. But right now i candidly just dont know. At one point your colleague, republican senator tom cotton brought up past statements you had made to cnn about not yet seeing any evidence of collusion between the Trump Campaign . We havent gathered all the evidence. Were just beginning. There is a lot more work to do. I know there is a rush to judgment but its going to take time to do it. And the fair thing is not to make a judgment until you can see all the evidence in one place, ask questions, and make judgments and come to a conclusion. And that is the only fair way to do it, in my mind, anderson. And so i would say the same thing today about collusion that i said whatever it was a month ago or so. And i know you cant discuss the specifics with what director
comey told you and your colleagues in the classified section, can you say he gave you more of the detail you were looking for and if it leads you further in One Direction or another . Well, i can say this, there was an opportunity for members to ask questions. And so members ask questions that they had, that they could not ask in the public session. Thats really all i can say. Sure, finally, you heard the president s private attorney say this afternoon that the James Comey Testimony was a vindication of the president . Is that how you see it . Is that a vindication of the president . Not at all. Not at all. I actually tend to believe comey. And i think all of this could have been avoided and the tragedy is that the United States government and the people, the 30,000 employees of the fbi lost a good leader over this. And i very much regret that. And i really hope the president
does too. But ill say this. If the new nominee wants to pledge loyalty to the president and wont maintain the kind of independence that has been the hallmark of the fbi, i certainly wont vote for him when he comes before us. Senator feinstein, i appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you, bye. Lot to discuss with the panel, gloria borger, dana bash, mr. Fuller, well start with you, was today was it a good day for the president . I think it was a good day for the president , james comey came across as a washington insider, who manages to be spineless. There were moments he admitted he was not standing up and giving the proper advice to the president. He was also verifying that a lot of things the president said were true. I think also interestingly he also confirmed in my mind which i believed all along there was no Obstruction Of Justice, no legal case to be made for that. He does contradict when the president said, i didnt tell him to stop the flynn investigation, he clear believes that was what he was directed to do. Look, i found it kind of interesting they were kind of debating how many angels sit on the head of a pin. Do they demand his honesty, his loyalty, i dont think any of that matters. The president has the authority under the article two of the discussion to seek the advice. He can fire him, certainly demand his loyalty. I think its normal for a president to demand loyalty from all of his subordinates. Do you think he has the right to fire you there may be a crime there,
that can be investigated. If i dont want any catholics in my investigation, so thats okay . Yes, there are two separate legal questions, one, can the president constitutionally fire a person . The answer is yes, even if he thinks he smells bad. Number two, even if the president fires him and engages in that behavior and we have evidence of that beyond a reasonable doubt, th that coulda separate a crime. Could you prosecute the president . Could the crime amount to a high crime that will suffice for impeachment. The answer is clearer, it would be yes. We disagree profoundly about this. The examples are gave are indicative of how serious what is going on here, if there are crimes committed between the Attorney General between the director of the fbi and the president you bet that is Obstruction Of Justice. All right, tell me how its Obstruction Of Justice . Its very similar to 1972 not at all similar. Where the president said there is a pending investigation. Nope. Of his full International Securi former National Security adviser, and he says let him go. That is the use of the fbi for political purposes and its unlawful and should be prosecuted. Here is the professor in me coming out. There are two sets of statutes under the u. S. Code under title 18. They deal with the obstruction of pending proceedings and obstruction of investigations, there is only one Obstruction Of Justice that would be arguable. That basically requires that there be an act of bribery that prevents a communication to a criminal investigator about a crime. You would agree that neither one
of those elements have been satisfied. Correct. Okay, we move on to pending proceedings. That is the relevant one. That is correct, 1510 and 12, both have proceedings language in them. Pending proceedings is a legal term of art defined in section 1515, and a pending proceeding is a judicial or quasijudicial proceeding, for example that would be an Administrative Agency that has Subpoena Power, enforcement power. The fbi does not have Subpoena Power so does not qualify. Every single court that has been asked the question does an fbi investigation constitute a pending there was a grand jury proceeding in the Eastern District of virginia Investigating Kelly at this moment. Yes. So there is your answer. Let me bring in other folks. I know. I know. I like i love the detail, though, i do love the detail. Im a geek. Believe me, this is a panel of geeks. This is called network of geeks, this is what we do. Paul today i dont think the president can afford many more days this good. I disagree, good day, okay, you stay with that. My Law School Dean used to say if you want to hide something, put it in a law book. Im not going to enter that conversation, but i am a geek, i was a watergate geek, i was too old for Little League and too young for girls and i fixated on watergate, the smoking gun, the Chief Of Staff for the president said the way to handle it now is for us to have Vernon Walters call pat gray, the head of the fbi and just say stay the hell out of this. This is business, we dont want you to go any further on that. Nixon says, uhhuh. That is all. For that, he was forced to resign, even Barry Goldwater said you were telling the cia to disrupt an fbi investigation. So if uhhuh was enough to drive nixon out of office, What The Hell did we just hear james comey testify on . Jason, you clearly believe this is vindication for the president , i mean, im guessing. Call me crazy. Look, i think the democrats servely overplayed their hand today. We waited all day for some big shoe to drop and there just was not anything. Once the folks in the media and the democrats get done running through the recap of the news cycle there is nowhere else to go. The biggest news today was the fact director comey cleared the president on a number of fronts. That was remarkable. There will be Additional Investigation on the information on the leakins of the memo, i think that needs additional scrutiny, i think Loretta Lynch will have a couple of bumpy days in her future. There will be criticisms on other stories. You know, its interesting the idea that you know, there was no big Shoe Dropping today. In some ways because so much of this information was reported out, leaked out. Gotten by our reporters, the New York Times and the Washington Post and others, it was not as big of a surprise, his Opening Statement was given out yesterday. And the Senate IntelligenceCommittee Posted it to their website, comey wanted it released so they could comb through it and come up with questions. So a lot of Gee Whiz Questions were answered today. So two things happening today, really a problem for the
president was two big negatives got reinforced. The fbi director over and over again called him a liar, called his administration a liar. That was a negative for donald trump, two thirds of the country thought he was a liar back on election day, two thirds of the electrorate electorate. When comey said, i considered it a directive, a majority of people believe that he did want to interfere. Because there was no big new thing to chew on, no big shoe to drop. I do think this day probably was not as bad as it could have been for donald trump but that didnt mean it was not a bad day. And comey came out and said i was fired because of the Russia Investigation, we had not heard that before that he had drawn the conclusion and he said that is a big deal. And so you can you can see as you go through all of his meetings and Everything Else that maybe he was not at
obstruction on day one, but by the time he was fired for his Russia Investigation and he would not answer this question today with good reason, but you can see that he was dryiawing this is why i got fired. Plenty of the things that director comey said today, though, to jays point you can point to and say for somebody who was being portrayed as a boy scout, he clearly is a savvy, savvy, political player who survived for a long time. He doesnt confront Loretta Lynch, doesnt confront the president directly, yet he leaks this document in order to get a special counsel. Its like three dimensional chess. He was strategic in the way he delivered his testified, what he said. I mean, there were some questions, Senator Feinstein hit the nail squarely when she
asked, youre a strong person, why did you not question or challenge the president at this moment . It was also Loretta Lynch, i called some people close to her and they said they used the word matter at that time to neither confirm or deny there was an investigation. And then there was this other piece about lordy, i wish that there was a tape. So i called some members of the Secret Service and they actually said there is no taping devices within the white house. So but at the same time could have used this. Exactly, yes, exactly, right. And donald trump is known, well, before he was president , when he was a businessman to tape people. So his business meetings, so it is not beyond the realm of possibility. But the question is did it
happen . So there is a lot of questions i was left with that i believe comey was delivered a strong statement, and he said, he said she says, so its a long road. Dont mess with comey. Well, i think, i mean, i appreciate that it probably could have been worse for the white house, but any day that your spokesperson says the president is not a liar. And needs to say that because the guy that he fired from the fbi says he was, multiple times,