They are a national disgrace. The president s tirade on the heels of comments made by his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, declaring, with a straight face, truth isnt truth. Im not going to be rushed into having him testify so he gets trapped into perjury. When you tell me that he should testify because he is going to tell the truth and he shouldnt worry, thats silly. Its somebodys version of the truth, not the truth. He didnt have a conversation truth is truth. I dont mean to it isnt truth. Truth isnt truth. The president of the United States says, i didnt truth is truth. No, no, no. This is going to become a bad meme. Dont do this to me. Jeremy diamond is at the white house. This morning, Rudy Giuliani appears to be trying to bat a little cleanup . Reporter it seems like it has become a bad meme, the images of chuck todd going like this while Rudy Giuliani is saying truth isnt truth. The president s personal attorney is trying to clean up those comments. He wrote, my statement was not meant as a pontification on moral theology but referring to the classic he said she said puzzle. Further inquiry it reveal truth. Other times it doesnt. This goes to the president and his attorneys concern that mueller will try to get them into a perjury trap. The notion that other people might offer a version of the truth that doesnt match up with the president s, most people will say, action long as you stay truthful, you wont be caught in perjury. Theres this concern among the president s attorneys that several other people could offer a different version than the president. This falls into the president s attorne attorneys broader attempt to poke at the investigation. While we did see muellers Approval Ratings backslide for several months as the president and his attorneys raised the critiq critiques, now we see a bounceback in the numbers. You see 47 of the American People approve of how mueller is handling the russia investigation. Thats up from 41 in june. It does appear a big part of the poo boost is from democrats who is growing tired of the attacks on the investigation. Many republicans still disapproving of the Mueller Investigation. It does appear theres a consensus among the American People that folks would like to see the investigation wrap up shortly. What that hinges on is the mueller Team Getting Back to the president and his legal team as far as an interview is concerned. It appears a lot more back and forth could still be in the works. Jeremy diamond, thank you. Joining me now, ross garber, and mark preston. As we look at all of this go back to whether truth is truth. Cant wait. You have been preparing lines for this. The white house was taken by surprise with this reporting about don mcgahn. How concerned should the president be if at all . Let me say this. We have known for a long time that mcgahn has been cooperating to some extent. I think what was probably surprising over the weekend is the extent, the number of times that he went in and probably how little the white house knew about it. Those things alone, i think, the white house should be very concerned about. The notion that the white House Counsel, the Senior Lawyer for the presidency, was in cooperating with federal investigators, that the president and the chief of staff and others around the president dont know what he said, that is troubling. I have represented a lot of public officials. I have never seen Something Like that. Its remarkable. It obviously struck a nerve with this president. We can tell that by the number of treweets and the focus of th tweets and the comments from Rudy Giuliani. Take a look at this. Our recollection keeps changing. Its in the eye of the beholder. Facts are not in the eye of the beholder. You are welcome to argue the case. Its somebodys version of the truth, not the truth. He didnt have a conversation truth is truth. I dont mean to go it isnt truth. Truth isnt truth. As we look at this, yes, the memes are on there this morning. Rudy giuliani was trying to clear things up a little bit as jeremy reported. This is part of the push to reshape and discredit this investigation. Yeah. Theres no question, theres this very public effort on behalf of President Trump, his allies and Rudy Giuliani, specifically his lawyers, to try to put any discredit upon this investigation. If you think about what he is trying to do, he is going out there right now, erica, and what he is trying to do is he is trying to cloud any question about what exactly happened, what the president s recollection was of any of these events. In addition to that, he is also trying to create this cloud to also show that the president might not have had intent. The president didnt knowingly try to include with russia. The president , you know, knew a meeting was happening but didnt realize that he shouldnt have allowed it to happen. I think at the very end, that if we see charges or some kind of outline from mueller given to congress that says the president did try to include, thats going to be their defense. To your point, we have seen a lot of that. Ross touched on this a little bit. The fact that we hear from this white house that no information incriminating the president was provided and yet they do not know exactly what was said, because there wasnt a full debrief. You cant this goes back to truth isnt truth. You cant have both of those things be accurate. Truth is not on the president s side. Truth is not on rudys side. All they can do is create confusion and try to create alternative facts. If we go back to inauguration weekend, alternative facts. The end of the road is truth isnt truth. Thats the plan. Thats the strategy. To the extent theres a strategy at all. I think two things we should note. One is, rudy and the president , they are talking to the president s supporters. Thats first. The second is, there is a kernel of truth in what rudy said. The three of us can walk away with different recollections of a meeting, different senses, different perceptions. Assuming were both telling the truth, trying to tell the truth, which version is the truth . Who knows . I think theres a seed of the right idea there. Does trump earn the benefit of the doubt at this point . Does Rudy Giuliani earn the benefit of the doubt at this point . I wrote a story about rudy going on tv and lying. He has been lying all along, as the president s lawyer, and the president s been lying ever since he took the oath of office. Do they have credibility left . Thats one of the big problems. Its a credibility issue. Its a communications issue, too. You are right, he is speaking to the base. Speaking is the base is working for the president s fan base, truth isnt truth anymore. Thats true. This brings into account, we could walk away with a different impression from the same meeting. Thats true. Thats where you get the he said he said. Theres a kernel there. If we go back to the point of, there was nothing incriminating but we dont know what was said because we didnt do a full debrief, whats to stop the white house from getting a full debrief saying don mcgahn, we need you in here today, monday, we want to know everything you talked about . Is there anything that could get in the way of that . What would normally happen is that would happen lawyer to lawyer. I would be shocked if it didnt happen a long time ago. Maybe it didnt. Our reporting is that full debrief did not happen with william burke, who is his attorney. Its incredible. It can happen now. It can happen lawyer to lawyer. It seems to me it should happen lawyer to lawyer. Theres also, as we look at the president stepping up these attacks the president is calling the investigators thugs. It doesnt sound like, despite his tweets, the president is comfortable with don mcgahn speaking with investigators, trying to downplay all of it and reminding everyone, but he did it with my blessing. If you remember, there was a different legal team when mcgahn started cooperating and going in for these meetings. That was their decision to move forward. They thought by having don go in and having him do this, they are are not hiding anything. We have seen a 180degree turn in strategy with a different legal team that are very aggressive and continue to confuse. One thing brian did say and i think its important, because its really whats happening right now to this country, is credibility is really in the eye of the beholder. Right now, we have 40 four in ten americans that are okay with the way President Trump is acting. Even more surprisingly, you have 80 or 90 of republicans right now in general who think that he is doing a good job stewarding the country. Thats a big divide. It is. To brians point about credibility and facts, lets see what Rudy Giuliani said about the trump tower meeting. They knew a woman with a russian name wanted to meet with them. They didnt know she was a representative of the russian government. Shes not a representative of the russian government. Of course, we actually know thats not true. They did know. It was in the documentation. The email said this is part of the attempt to help your campaign and to support you and help you get elected. That was attempted collusion. Here is the thing. Its a shame were debating these basic facts. Its a shame we still are. But we are because the messaging is out there. This works with the president s base. They will follow what they want to believe to be true as so many are doing as mark pointed out. The larger issue is, when does it start to erode more away at those numbers we see that mark was talking about . Four in ten americans dont have a problem with it. Look, i dont think rudy was lying. I dont think he was intentionally misstating the facts. He keeps hurting his client. My god. I dont think he knows what happened. I think it may be a reflection of the notion that it may not matter exactly to them exactly what the facts are because, again, they are talking directly to their base. Their base is saying, it doesnt matter. Rudy is focused on all sort of other issues instead of the nittygritty facts. Its one of the issues that happened all along. Its why they dont know what mcgahn said. By the way, i think we know how this ends. Rudy has said, we will release our own report. Give us a report, we will release our own. At the end of this, theres two sets of facts. Like there was a memo from the republicans and the democrats. We remember how that played out. Mark, ross, brian, appreciate it. Thank you all. Coming up, sources telling cnn federal prosecutors are preparing criminal charges for President Trumps former lawyer Michael Cohen. What could those charges be . Thats next. First lady trump speaking out about sign are bucyberbully. Did she reference the president and his behavior . Be a man. Just relax. Just relax. Bed. It senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. And now, all beds are on sale. Save 50 on the new sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Only for a limited time. Now tmobile has unlimited for the rest of us. Unlimited ways to be you. Unlimited ways share with others. Unlimited ways to live for the moment. All for as low as 30 bucks a line. Unlimited for you. For them. For all. Get unlimited for as low at 30 bucks per line for four lines at tmobile. The first survivor of alzis out there. Ase and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the Alzheimers Association. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. 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Selected for meeting their high standards of quality and service. This type of plan lets you say yes to any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. Do you accept medicare patients . I sure do so call unitedhealthcare today and ask for your free decision guide. Oh, and happy birthday. Or retirement. In advance. To give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you dont. Ill take that. [cheers] 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. New ensure max protein. In two great flavors. He is President Trumps longtime attorney. His socalled fixer. Could he be known as a defendant . Cnn learning federal prosecutors in new york are preparing criminal charges against Michael Cohen, charges that could be announced in days. Cohen is being investigated for possible bank and tax fraud and Campaign Finance violations linked to a sixfigure payment to a certain adumelt film star. One of the New York Times reporters who broke that story joins me now. Based on what you are learning here, the charges could be filed before the end of the month. How much of the focus in terms of the charges is on those hush money payments that were made by Michael Cohen . I think that its hard to divide it up by percentages, so to speak. The bank fraud and tax fraud charges, possible charges, are more serious and carry potentially longer sentences. Those are related to the taxi medallions mostly, businesswise . Thats my understanding. Then the other charges maybe not as weighty. They produce a better headline. I think they are more sensational. They have attracted more attention over the last several months, since the search, certainly than the bank and tax fraud charges. Its all been under investigation, i think, pretty much over the same period of time. Were learning that you are learning the charges could come before the end of august. If that doesnt happen, if the charges are not filed before september 1, is it simply waiting until after election day . I think there are a lot of moving parts here. I think it appears or it would seem that the government and mr. Cohens lawyers are having or have had some sort of discussions about cooperation. He has made clear that he is interested, you know, through his lawyers, his own public statements hinting at it that he is interested in cooperating. So those talks may still be going on. They may be completed. How that goes and how far along they are and what decisions both sides made will have some affect on when there might be some action. If they have reached an impasse, if theyre not going to if they cant reach a deal and they want to charge him, they may choose to do that before the end of august. In terms of any sort of cooperation on the part of Michael Cohen, how much of that deal would also include something for the Mueller Investigation . This is all happening, obviously, in the Southern District. Its hard to say. You know, its we dont know i dont know what information mr. Cohen has that might be of interest to muellers people. He could have information that would be of interest to the Southern District that would have to be of some significant heft to get him a deal. But its sort of a wild card. Many people assume that he has information that would be of value to either or both of those prosecutorial agencies. But really, we just dont know. We dont know. Here we all sit waiting to find out. Appreciate you coming in. Thank you. Also with us, defense attorney and former federal prosecutor shan wu. Anything to read into us being at this point today, august 20th . I think of those charges first of all, i think this is Michael Cohens Worst Nightmare come true. Any time you get a raid on your office, you worry what they will find. This is everything he would have feared, bank fraud, tax fraud as well as Campaign Finance possibility charges. The one most dangerous for the president is actually the Campaign Finance issue. That can lead to the president s knowledge or direction of cohen to do this. I think that for the prosecutors, the bank fraud and the tax fraud are really their leverage on him. The potential sentences for that, whatever they are on the books, it really comes down to the federal sentencing guidelines. Thats going to depend on how much money is lost. When you are talking about anything over a million, its significant and you are looking at jail time. Its well over a million, at least from what we have learned. All of this is happening as it is day three for the jury in the Paul Manafort trial. Waiting on a verdict there. Could that have any impact on the decision as to when to file charges and also be any possible deal for