Amid psychological torment and international intrigue. It happened when three americans went for a hike and ended up in the most famous prison in iran. But we begin tonight with the battle over Big Government set in the sage brush of nevada. How cows and our militia and fox news turned one man into a modern folk hero. And how that man turned himself into a political pariah overnight. Cnns dana bash now brings us the legend of cliven bundy. Reporter for 20 years, nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy has been battling the federal authorities over land. It came to a head two weeks ago. The armed militia members came to bundys defense, joining in an oldstyle west showdown. Bundys crusade made him a hero, thanks especially to fox news and the host, sean hannity. I would think the federal government would be thankful. Reporter when Senate Leader harry reid called terrorist . I want to tell you one more thing i know about the negro, they abort their young children, put their young men in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton. I often wonder, are they better off picking cotton or better off under government subsidy . Reporter he tried to clarify but not back down. Im not saying i thought they should be slaves. Or i didnt even say they were better off one way or another. I wonder if theyre better off. Reporter before those comments he drew praise. There is something incredibly wrong when a government believes that blades of grass a cow is eating it really is government overreach, government gone amuk. And jumping on the band wagon, theyre running the other way. Rand paul tweeted his remarks on race are offensive and i wholeheartedly disagree with him. And the spokesperson for senator heller says he disagrees with the racist statements and condemns them. Sean hannity was blunt. Im pissed off today. Condemning bundys comments. People for the right reasons that saw this case as government overreach now are like branded because of the ignorant racist, repugnant, despicable comments of cliven bundy. Hannity argue that there is a double standard, that when liberals Say Something stupid or racist, the liberals dont get linked to it. Still, some say this is what happens when republican candidate s pander, they risk getting burned. All right, thank you, joining me now from bunkerville, nevada, the man of the hour, cliven bundy, thank you for joining us. Sir, how are you . Good, im happy to be here tonight. All right, we appreciate you taking the time. You know, i got to hand it to you, cliven, it is not every man who can bring sort of our divided nation together. It is not every guy who can have harry reid and sean hannity agreeing. But both men came together today with the idea that your ideas are ignorant and racist and repugnant and hateful and extreme. Do you understand why so many people from both sides of the political spectrum are so upset with what you said . No, i dont understand. I feel like that i what i said, i said from my heart. I didnt say it as a racial thing. I felt like that there is a group of people were talking about, the black community. You know, my question was, im wondering, im wondering. Whether theyre that much better off in this situation were in now with the government overreach. And these you know, i can see these people suffering. And my heart is going out to them, it is not against them. And then i compare it with slavery, i didnt really mean to to compare them with slavery. I meant to compare it with life on the farm or life in the south where they had you know, some chickens and gardens and they had something to do. And that is what you know, it seemed like the people in the city and their life, theyre wondering what to do. They dont have nothing to do with their children. They dont have the the family unit is ruined. And so that is what im referring to. I dont think i dont think they have the life that they should have. They dont have the freedoms and liberty. They should have i felt like that i felt like that you know, the government has a lot to do with this depression that theyre in. Yeah, but cliven, come on, man, im going to send you a copy of a book called 12 years a slave. Because it doesnt seem like you understand the pain that this entire group of people went through for so long. We live in an era now when a black man can be president instead of being owned by another. You espouse freedom. It is just deeply offensive, first of all to refer to these folks as the negro. And just because you drove by some people in las vegas and you make such sort of disgusting general judgments about people. It is deeply hurtful. Well, you know, i would have really liked to have the discussion with private families instead of with the world. But i still make my stand. That is my feeling. And i felt i feel that because i seen it. And you know, i would love to have this discussion with private families. If im wrong, okay. But i dont think im wrong. I think i was right. Well, let me ask you this, here is where the irony really gets thick. Is that you are writing off a whole class of people, African Americans as sort of dangerously dependent because they get government assistance. At the same time, youre grazing your cows on public land for free. So how are you not sort of a welfare queen in a cowboy hat . Well, you know, i might be a welfare queen. But i tell you im producing something for america and using the resource that nobody else can use. Would use or could use. And im putting red meat on your table. And maybe im not doing enough. But im trying. Hey, i love a burger, i love a good filet. But there are 16,000 other ranchers in nevada who pay grazing fees. Arent you mooching off of them . Well, ill tell you there are 16,000 people not very happy. And there are 16,000 people that signed contracts with the United States government. And they should be thinking about sovereignty of the state of nevada and signing contracts with their county government. Not the United States, i can tell them that much. But this land has been federal since we got it from mexico in 1848. The grazing laws have been on the books since 1934. I know your family has been there a long time. You own a little bit and we own the rest. And it doesnt seem reasonable. Well, you better start to respect my rights a little bit and start respecting state sovereignty a little bit. And then you show me in the constitution how the constitution could possibly own this land i graze my cattle on, you take five minutes and show me. How does it feel to be abandoned by your friends on fox . I mean, the only reason we could get you on tonight is i guess they didnt call. You know, i dont think i have been abandoned. I think maybe they misunderstood me a little bit. But i think fox and i, and i think hannity and i are just right on. And i have no doubt that he would be support me if he understood really what is in my heart. And i think he does understand me. I dont think there is a question there. Well, he called you an ignorant racist, and repugnant, and despicable. Well, i hope im not that way. Well. Ill tell you what im not. Let me ask you about the folk there is who love you, and came from around the country packing their guns. Now, there are plenty of people out there who agree with you in principle, who agree the government is too big and too stupid. But where you lose them is on the idea that every time we got mad at paying taxes or a fee or zoning law. If we all grabbed guns, we would all go back into the middle ages. Are you and your supporters really willing to spill the blood of another american over where your cows eat . Well, is america really willing to spill our blood and we the peoples blood when we stand up for a little bit of liberty and freedom . I think that is the question. Well, they backed off. And maybe they learned their lesson from waco, but they backed off. The only reason they say they came in so heavy was the threats you made and the resistance that you made all of these years . Well, how could i be a threat . Im only one man. You didnt see me with any army. You never seen me carry arms. You never seen me threaten them in any physical way so how can you call me im such a threat . So youre going to keep the was it the oathkeepers, are you going to keep the militia around you just in case the blm comes back for the cows . No, you know, im not keeping them, those people come here volunteer, and leave volunteer. I dont give them any orders. I never have. I never asked them to come, im not going to tell them to go either. Okay, and what about the Million Dollars you the government says you owe for those grazing fees . Why dont they send me a bill if i owe them that much money . They havent been sending you bills all of these 20 years . No, they have never sent me a bill. And you know, they have raised it from 300,000 a couple of weeks ago to a million. I wonder how those cows ate that much grass . Would you pay it if you had it. Work out a payment plan . Oh, i would pay it to the Proper Authority and government if i owed it. Do you believe in the federal government . Do you have any reverence for what happens in washington, d. C. At all . Well, sure, i do. You know, i stated i pledge allegiance to the flag, i think our constitution is the best form of government in the world. I think that each one of those in washington, d. C. That we sent there is representatives, and senators have a job to do. I think the United States government has jobs to do. A lot of jobs. But i dont think one of their jobs is to be out here pointing guns at we the people here in the state of nevada. That is not their job. If they agreed to come back without any guns would you talk to them and work this out . No, i have no business with them. If the county sheriff would want to come or the state governor i would talk business with them. Okay. Well, cliven bundy, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you for telling your side. Thank you for having me. Youre welcome. Well, you heard what the most controversial rancher in america has to say. When we come back, how he became the darling of the right. What it means for former fans and the culture wars in this country. Stick around. Constipated . Yea dulcolax tablets can cause cramps but not phillips. It has magnesium and works more naturally than stimulant laxatives. For gentle cramp free relief of occasional constipation that works mmm mmm live the regular life. Improving everything from booking to baggage claim. Were raising the bar on flying and tomorrow well raise it yet again. Well, you heard just a second ago, but how did Rancher Cliven Bundy become such a poster boy for the tea party in many quarters . And what do they think of him now . Reporter from angry rants. Your government has gone absolutely wild. Reporter to news made to look like an old western showdown. Meet cliven bundy. Reporter conservative outlets, most notably fox news turned the Rancher Cliven Bundy into a simple star. People tasered, they have dogs and snipers surrounding his ranch over grazing fees. Reporter his clash two weeks ago with federal authorities drew national attention. When wranglers came to impound his cattle, theed media was there. The standoff over the bundy cattle ranch. Reporter by then, john stuart had heard enough. How is this guy bundy a hero for ignoring federal law . Maybe fox would have moved on, but the Senate Majority leader, harry reid, said this about the bundy supporters. These people who hold themselves out to be patriots are not. Theyre nothing more than domestic terrorists. Reporter lines draw, as msnbc attacked fox news, led by sean hannity, fights back. Are they going to send snipers to everybodys house . Really, were not ashamed of our coverage, were actually proud of our coverage. Mr. Bundy is a sincere man. He is a patriot and hero. At the vortex of this antigovernment movement. What a difference a day makes and a reporter makings. All of those comments were before the racist remarks from bundy surfaced in the New York Times this morning. And bill, it is amazing to me, the comments he made on the ranch were from saturday. The the New York Times reporter didnt publish them for five days. Fox news kept covering it. Nobody else heard what he said until 24 hours ago. Well, sort of a sketchy job there if youre going to pick a hero. And lets bring in two men likely to disagree, and ben ferguson on the right. Mark, let me start with you, this idea that hannity said after he called these comments repugnant that there is a double standard. If somebody on the left says really offensive it gets brushed under the rug. First, i would like to see these left wing comments that he is raising. I need a counter example, i dont know any left wing pundits who talk about slavery or White Nationalism who hurl the n word, whenever this stuff happens it tends to happen from the right. Ben, do you have any examples . I think there was sarah palin, somebody once that said they should defecate in her mouth, do you not count that as extreme. Both sides have extreme people . The argument let me finish my point. Finish. They do say extreme things, including harry reid saying this guy is a domestic terrorist. That is how it gets ratcheted up. What he said about race, perverted. I totally agree with you, but the idea that the government should come in, in this way is what the original story was about. Now, before you stand next to the guy you might want to vet him and a lot of people didnt vet this guy. The principle of the issue was, does the federal government really have time to be guntoting down to some ranch in the middle of nowhere over a guy in grazing rights and are they abusing their power . Well, then that message gets lost with what he said. If you do, you look at ted nugent, who else, there are other examples. But how will this affect the Republican Party in terms of picking a folk hero of the day . Well, i took a lot of heat for saying this on my show. I actually was very cautious of mr. Bundy. I said look, he has had a 20year rift with the government. I think we ought to step back before we champion him. And i think that is what people are going to learn from this. That is just because in principle you agree with the idea you might want to find out who the heck he has been for the last 20 or 30 years. And no one seems to want to do that. It was the principle coming down on the little guy and bringing in guns in the wacotype way. And we already saw what happened in waco in history and do we really want to go there again . The money wasted. Wow, ben but it is a selective indignation about government overreach. A selective indignation about government overspending on the little guy. I could make the similar argument about the immigration, and war on drugs saying were picking on the little people. That is a little different than grazing rights of cows. That is not the argument here, the point, ben, when we talk about this guy i could argue he is take willing literally millions of dollars from the federal government. There is some woman who may have gotten 100,000 over here life. Let me finish, ben, and he represents a broader range of people who are doing the same thing. It is not just one bundy here, there are a lot of people doing this, this is the concern. Ben, let me finish the point. The other thing is while i agree, most of the right including from sean hannity on down have run away from this comment. And i think they should have. Often times what republicans are really saying, you cant be this explicit with it. You can think that black people are stealing from the government, and governments are bad. You just cant say it like that. You can do it guilt by association. That does worry me in this case here is the thing, though, for me. Im new to cable news so this feels like my first night in the prison cafeteria. I dont know who is going to but isnt this about fox news more than anything else . Theyre the ones who crowned this guy. And you know what the shows are doing at fox news, theyre focusing on harry reid, fox is very everythingive, taking a story, focusing on it, and then moving away from it at the time it decides the story is over. Although to their credit, they said who can support him after this . Ill support the legal rights. Were seeing a lot of fox commentators moving away. When mr. Bundy said i hope im not this way it is denial, though, it is denial. You saw him deny it. I think he doesnt want to realize that what he said was so out of whack with reality. And now he is probably trying to deal with this. And this is unfortunately going to be the biggest asterisk of his entire life. Everything he has done. But he said maybe they should have been learning how to pick cotton. That is the end of the story for him in my opinion. Your story has become a part of our culture. That is how we decide our values. Ben, mark, brian, we appreciate it. If you could ask the malaysian Prime Minister about the flight 370. It would be 40 days and you could finally declare the passengers lost . His surprising answers next. mom when our little girl was born, we got a subaru. Its where she said her first word. little girl no saw her first day of school. little girl bye bye made a best friend forever. 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And what might be the understatement of the year, malaysias Prime Minister says there are things his country did well and things they didnt do well in the search for flight 370. And the malaysian Prime Minister says that preliminary reports on the planes disappearance will be released next week. And richard joins us from kuala lumpur. He says he is not ready. I guess was it out of respect for the families that he says he is not willing to say tha