Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon 20180530 : v

This is cnn tonight. Im don lemon. 11 00 p. M. Live on the east coast with all the new developments, including the latest on abc cancelling the hit reboot of roseanne after the star of the show, Roseanne Barr unleashed a racist tweet comparing former obama aide, Valerie Jarrett to an ape. Has america become more openly racist under President Trump . Plus, were learning tonight that the president doesnt just blast the attorney general Jeff Sessions for recusing himself from the russia investigation, he demanded he reverse his decision. Sessions stood his ground, but now Robert Mueller is very interested in that confrontation and what it means for the obstruction investigation. That is according to the New York Times. In a moment, ill talk to one of the reporters who broke that story. Thanks so much for joining us, everyone. I want to bring in frank bruni of the New York Times and also the author of the truth about trump. And april ryan, White House Correspondent for american urban radio networks. So, frank, you say that there is a through line between President Trump and Roseanne Barr, they both traffic in conspiracy theories and they both traffic in bigotry. That roseanne is trumps avatar . That is what i thought, honestly this morning. If youre talking about using twitter and this sort of incredibly divisive in in his case border line racist, in her case, obvious racist way. What connects them is this idea, that donald trump has promoted, although she gets full credit, that this idea that divisive, nasty, hateful language that rebels against political correctness. Sometimes its just racist, as it was with this roseanne tweet. Its disturbing. This is outright racism and, the happy part of the story is abc did the right thing. It did not violate her freedom of speech. No ones sending her to prison. Shes free to get back to twitter tomorrow, to go out in a Public Square and say anything she wants to. I knew it was going to happen. As soon as the alert came over, in three, two, one, the stifling conservative voices bull, you know what was coming, and it came. Its really hard to be plainspoken and direct and honest and thoughtful. This is the problem. So Roseanne Barr has done this before. She used almost exactly the same term to talk about susan rice. So are we surprised that this person lacks the intelligence and creativity to get beyond her racism and actually Say Something . Do you believe this is part of the bigger climate of racism, racist behavior, that has happened since this president has taken office, or at least since hes come onto the scene . Hes done this his whole life. So we know that this is his m. O. I think that he has opened the door to the worst in us. This is a president whos chosen not to elevate us, but to diminish us and to teach us that its okay to talk this way because the most important person in our body politic and really the most important man on earth does this too, so why not me. April, a lot of folks are wondering why the network even hired roseanne given her history of bigotry and spreading conspiracy theories. But our own president shares conspiracy theories. I mean, just today, President Trump continued his false twitter tirade against Robert Mueller and the russia investigation. April . Well, don, you know yeah, this whole situation of this president and conspiracy theories and roseanne, these are people who really and its unfortunate to say who really have no understanding of how government works. You know, we have had conspiracy theories since the grassy knoll theories or conspiracies and beyond. At issue, the president of the United States who is friends with or support this comedian actress, whatever you want to call her, and they sit down and just make these things up or hear from somewhere and say, this sounds good, let me go with it. This kind of thing causes problems and it can cause people to get hurt. I mean, we saw what happened with the pizza situation at comic pizza in washington, d. C. These things have to stop. There needs to be responsibility. There needs to be responsibility with people who have these great megaphones. Roseanne barr had a great perch that she abused. People understood she was controversial. Sometimes that makes people say, i like her because shes against the grain. But shes gone too far. And shes not the only one. If you look on twitter, and weve talked about this, if you look on twitter, you see people saying gorilla. You see people saying planet of the apes. I got it this weekend. But goodness prevailed today, and maybe this president , maybe just maybe he got a glimpse of it and thats why he left it alone tonight. I wouldnt hold my breath on that, april. I feel your optimism, glass half full. Im still getting people sharing the fake Whoopi Goldberg tshirt that Whoopi Goldberg had a picture of the president being shot. Its fake, its not real. Its a Conspiracy Theory. Many people believe it, many people dont and just love doing it. I dont give a rats you know what what someone says about me on twitter unless they threaten my life or unless it puts me in danger. Yes. This is another Conspiracy Theory that i just talked about. Republican trey gowdy supported the fbis use of an informant. Watch this. I am even more convinced that the fbi did exactly what my fellow citizens would want them to do when they got the information they got, and that it has nothing to do with donald trump. Go, frank. What do you think . I have to admit, i didnt hear the end of what he said. He said, it had nothing to do with donald trump. He thinks that the fbi did the right thing and thats what most citizens in the United States would want him to do, nothing to do with trump. I agree with him. Youre talking about spy gate and all of that stuff. Right. We need more republicans like trey gowdy to come out and say that. When i listen to that, im glad hes not buying into what donald trump is selling. But the things that remains so disturbing is how many republicans either buy into it or pretend they buy into it or just look away. It remains the norm. Most republicans in d. C. Are still turning their gazes away, or biting their tongues. And every time they do that, trump is getting to normalize this sport of conspiracy theorizing. We wondered at the beginning what would he normalize. Roseanne gets full credit for what she did. But one of the things trump has normalized is the notion that if you believe something may be true, its okay to put it out there. Thats not normal. That should never become normal. As michael said, when its done by the person at the apex of our government, its impossible for some people not to see is that as a green light and as permission. And its abject cowardice for the members of congress to not confront this. We now have a conspiracy caucus among republicans on the fringe, but one of them happens to be my member of congress, and they promote these conspiracy theories as if theres something to it. Its destructive to our society, its destructive to our democracy and were not going to recover that quickly . Who is your member . Lee zeldin. Hes a guy who thinks theres a conspiracy in every fbi office. He also represents me out in long island as well. Listen, roseanne has paid the price now. But you look at for and President Trumps has she really, though . Go on. What do you mean by that . You know, okay, abc did this major move, and some people are saying, im shocked. But they made this major move, but its not over yet. The question is, will another network pick her up . And if they do, it negates everything that happened. And the television executive, a good friend of mine, sent me a text and said, look, lets see who picks her up, if shes picked up. So its not over. Were just going to wait and see. Trust me, Roseanne Barr is also a business woman. And its about the economics as well. A lot of people are out of work. And i guarantee you shes working the phones, trying to revamp her image, and trying to see if this can fly. Okay, april. She took an action and paid the consequence for that action. Abc did act on this. Whether someone picks her up, thats their right. Maybe someone like info wars, or people who traffic in conspiracy theories, maybe theyll pick her up. This is america. Shell have a standup tour. Cosby did it. But cosby doesnt have a career. Its a different thing. He tried he tried. But people werent buying what he was selling. Shell go out there, play the red states and now shell know t soo shell be the hero. I wouldnt say all the red states. There will be a pocket of people. Who will rally to her and make her a hero. Lets talk about roseanne paid the price, so to speak. April said its not over yet. Billy bush, bill cosby, you mentioned. Matt lauer, maharvey weinstein, and the list goes on. But theres no consequence for this president. Well, there is no consequence because he was elected, as rereminds everyone and with help and were not allowed to ask about that. And hes now gamed the system the way he claims its gamed against him. We have no alternative but the democratic process. Its simpler than that. All these people had bosses. Donald trumps boss is the American People. He gets his judgment when we get to vote again. And it is my, if not quite my belief, its my fervent hope, that once americans get to weigh in on this again, they will say, no, no, no, this isnt who we are. Thank you all. I appreciate it. But don, i want to go on, if you can do it in five seconds, april. Real fast, i believe black america, black leaders weighed on this president s mind today and thats one of the reasons why he did not say anything about roseanne in nashville. Because hes working with black leaders behind closed doors on an urban agenda as well as prison reform. And black leaders are not happy about what happened today so he kept quiet. Okay. I dont know. I dont know if im buying that. I dont think hes a politician. Who knows. We shall see. 5 00 a. M. To 6 30 is his twitter hot spot. Well see tomorrow morning. He wants to seem like hes not racist. Too late. Well see. When we come back, why has calling out racist behavior become a political issue . Well talk about how tribalminded political thinking seems to prevent people from calling out right and wrong. You wont see these folks at the post office they have businesses to run they have passions to pursue how do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters ship packages all the Amazing Services of the post office right on your computer get a 4 week trial plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again in the wake of Roseanne Barrs racist tweet, the cancellation of her show, is america so divided now that we cant even all agree that racism is evil and unacceptable . Rick wilson, the author of the book, everything trump touches dies and conservative commentator carrie sheffield. Roseanne barr is tweeting now. I understand she tweeted something about me retweeted and then deleted it. But its not roseanne its not don lemon cnn. Just don lemon, but she deleted it. She said, dont feel sorry for me, guys. I just want to apologize to the hundreds of people and wonderful writers, all liberal and talented actors who lost their jobs on my show due to my stupid tweet. I will be on joe rogans podcast on friday. What do you say . Own your own stuff, right . You know, Everybody Needs to own their own stuff. But roseanne also needs to understand that old rules about holes and digging universally applies. And she ought to just take a deep breath and step back from twitter for a little while. This is not going to help her. Its not going to help those folks. I think we need a national breather on this particular story because its just a remarkable moment where were actually arguing whether something was racist, its the era we seem to find ourselves in. When it is, lets call it out. It doesnt behoove anybody to pretend its not real when its real. Thank you. She retweeted the tweet about me, not the one that i just read. Its still there . Is the retweet there . Shes watching . Anyway, it doesnt matter. Thanks for watching, roseanne. What do you say . I agree that, yes, it was a racist statement, and its important and im glad shes apologized. I will say that nobody is irredeemable, no matter what Hillary Clinton says, roseanne is redeemable. What does it have to do with Hillary Clinton . Were talking about roseanne. Absolutely. What does this have to do with Hillary Clinton . It has to do with the fact that there is, in this situation, with abc, selective moral outrage. Cherrypicked virtue singling. Did you hear what rick said . Im sorry, carrie. I dont want the what aboutism. Can we stick to whats happening now and Hillary Clinton is not president. Donald trump is president. Hillary clinton is not president. I know in an alternative universe that Hillary Clinton is president. You would like that . No, i would not like that. Youre assuming something about me thats not necessarily true. This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton, or who i hope would be president , nothing about that. So lets stop with the what aboutism and whats happening now. This is about Roseanne Barr. This is about abc news and the fact that joy behar still has a job and roseanne does not. Its not about joy behar. Stop, please. Do you think krafetianichris a Mental Illness . I dont want to give disinformation to the viewers. This is not about joy behar. Its about behavior by abc. If you can stick with what were talking about, Roseanne Barr, then fine. Im not going down this line. Its ridiculous. Cornell west was just on he was on another program. He was on cnn. What he said was with roseanne and i agree with cornell west, what he said about her in this case, where he said, we need to love the sinner and hate the sin. So when i say that roseanne is redeemable, i am contradicting something that was said earlier, and i you can say that about her, but you dont have to bring in Hillary Clinton to do that. Even the bible says that, god says that. Im sure your mom told you that. Why must you bring up Hillary Clinton . I can bring up jayz, hes said foul, vulgar, Disgusting Things about women, but jayz is redeemable. What does jayz have to do about it . This evening, we were talking about news, President Trump mentioned jayz this evening and we know hes said misogynistic things about women. Why are you bringing up jayz . Hold on, hold on. This is the fact that conservatives have been shut out of hollywood. So you think everyone should be treated equally when it comes to who should have a job and who shouldnt, when they say things that are untoward . That are, okay, does that mean for the president of the United States as well . Do you think the president of the United States should lose his job for saying racist things . Do you think the president of the United States should lose his job for saying for being a womanizer, for saying misogynistic things. Everyone is redeemable, including the president , including you, including madonna when she says she wants to blow up the white house, including everything on hbo all right, please. [ all speak at once ] carrie and i in many ways are on the same side of the ideological fence. But honestly, as a conservative, carrie, i beseech you, look at this problem for what it is. Lets have a conversation about the actual issue, not the ancillary issues, not the what aboutism issues. This is something we have to face directly. If you want abc to be accountable for other people, thats a separate discussion. And thats a separate matter. What we have right now is a person who behaved in a way how are you trying to separate it . Carrie, carrie . Excuse me bill maher used the n word. But were talking about roseanne. We have a situation right now where you have a person in the center of this political debate and the questions were answering right now are about roseanne and about these tweets and about what happened. And i think its a very legitimate question to ask for accountability broadly among institutions. However, in this case, were talking about roseanne. Were talking about what happened here and the character and nature of it here. And if you find yourself lured into this argument that what about hillary, what about barack, what about jayz, youre not answering the real question and that diminishes the impact of the moral answer you have to have when people display antisemitism and outright racism in this country. You have to do that. And as a conservative thats how i approach it, not because im some liberal s social justice warrior, but because i think racism is an abhorrent, disgusting practice and when we see it, we have to hammer it down, spray it like a cockroach and stamp it out. Just trying to throw up the flack on this other stuff is not where we need to go. You cant sweep that other stuff under the rug pch. Racism is disgusting. Its disgusting when bill maher says that women should be objectified and this talk of jayz [ speaking Foreign Language ] hey, im conservatives have been shut out of that town. Okay, produce better content. [ all speak at once ] thank you. We cant fix it by pretending that its hillary. Eminem can insult the president and yet he also is misogynistic and hes applauded by hollywood. All right, bye. Bye, don. Well be right back. Every Roseanne Barr<\/a> unleashed a racist tweet comparing former obama aide, Valerie Jarrett<\/a> to an ape. Has america become more openly racist under President Trump<\/a> . Plus, were learning tonight that the president doesnt just blast the attorney general Jeff Sessions<\/a> for recusing himself from the russia investigation, he demanded he reverse his decision. Sessions stood his ground, but now Robert Mueller<\/a> is very interested in that confrontation and what it means for the obstruction investigation. That is according to the New York Times<\/a>. In a moment, ill talk to one of the reporters who broke that story. Thanks so much for joining us, everyone. I want to bring in frank bruni of the New York Times<\/a> and also the author of the truth about trump. And april ryan, White House Correspondent<\/a> for american urban radio networks. So, frank, you say that there is a through line between President Trump<\/a> and Roseanne Barr<\/a>, they both traffic in conspiracy theories and they both traffic in bigotry. That roseanne is trumps avatar . That is what i thought, honestly this morning. If youre talking about using twitter and this sort of incredibly divisive in in his case border line racist, in her case, obvious racist way. What connects them is this idea, that donald trump has promoted, although she gets full credit, that this idea that divisive, nasty, hateful language that rebels against political correctness. Sometimes its just racist, as it was with this roseanne tweet. Its disturbing. This is outright racism and, the happy part of the story is abc did the right thing. It did not violate her freedom of speech. No ones sending her to prison. Shes free to get back to twitter tomorrow, to go out in a Public Square<\/a> and say anything she wants to. I knew it was going to happen. As soon as the alert came over, in three, two, one, the stifling conservative voices bull, you know what was coming, and it came. Its really hard to be plainspoken and direct and honest and thoughtful. This is the problem. So Roseanne Barr<\/a> has done this before. She used almost exactly the same term to talk about susan rice. So are we surprised that this person lacks the intelligence and creativity to get beyond her racism and actually Say Something<\/a> . Do you believe this is part of the bigger climate of racism, racist behavior, that has happened since this president has taken office, or at least since hes come onto the scene . Hes done this his whole life. So we know that this is his m. O. I think that he has opened the door to the worst in us. This is a president whos chosen not to elevate us, but to diminish us and to teach us that its okay to talk this way because the most important person in our body politic and really the most important man on earth does this too, so why not me. April, a lot of folks are wondering why the network even hired roseanne given her history of bigotry and spreading conspiracy theories. But our own president shares conspiracy theories. I mean, just today, President Trump<\/a> continued his false twitter tirade against Robert Mueller<\/a> and the russia investigation. April . Well, don, you know yeah, this whole situation of this president and conspiracy theories and roseanne, these are people who really and its unfortunate to say who really have no understanding of how government works. You know, we have had conspiracy theories since the grassy knoll theories or conspiracies and beyond. At issue, the president of the United States<\/a> who is friends with or support this comedian actress, whatever you want to call her, and they sit down and just make these things up or hear from somewhere and say, this sounds good, let me go with it. This kind of thing causes problems and it can cause people to get hurt. I mean, we saw what happened with the pizza situation at comic pizza in washington, d. C. These things have to stop. There needs to be responsibility. There needs to be responsibility with people who have these great megaphones. Roseanne barr had a great perch that she abused. People understood she was controversial. Sometimes that makes people say, i like her because shes against the grain. But shes gone too far. And shes not the only one. If you look on twitter, and weve talked about this, if you look on twitter, you see people saying gorilla. You see people saying planet of the apes. I got it this weekend. But goodness prevailed today, and maybe this president , maybe just maybe he got a glimpse of it and thats why he left it alone tonight. I wouldnt hold my breath on that, april. I feel your optimism, glass half full. Im still getting people sharing the fake Whoopi Goldberg<\/a> tshirt that Whoopi Goldberg<\/a> had a picture of the president being shot. Its fake, its not real. Its a Conspiracy Theory<\/a>. Many people believe it, many people dont and just love doing it. I dont give a rats you know what what someone says about me on twitter unless they threaten my life or unless it puts me in danger. Yes. This is another Conspiracy Theory<\/a> that i just talked about. Republican trey gowdy supported the fbis use of an informant. Watch this. I am even more convinced that the fbi did exactly what my fellow citizens would want them to do when they got the information they got, and that it has nothing to do with donald trump. Go, frank. What do you think . I have to admit, i didnt hear the end of what he said. He said, it had nothing to do with donald trump. He thinks that the fbi did the right thing and thats what most citizens in the United States<\/a> would want him to do, nothing to do with trump. I agree with him. Youre talking about spy gate and all of that stuff. Right. We need more republicans like trey gowdy to come out and say that. When i listen to that, im glad hes not buying into what donald trump is selling. But the things that remains so disturbing is how many republicans either buy into it or pretend they buy into it or just look away. It remains the norm. Most republicans in d. C. Are still turning their gazes away, or biting their tongues. And every time they do that, trump is getting to normalize this sport of conspiracy theorizing. We wondered at the beginning what would he normalize. Roseanne gets full credit for what she did. But one of the things trump has normalized is the notion that if you believe something may be true, its okay to put it out there. Thats not normal. That should never become normal. As michael said, when its done by the person at the apex of our government, its impossible for some people not to see is that as a green light and as permission. And its abject cowardice for the members of congress to not confront this. We now have a conspiracy caucus among republicans on the fringe, but one of them happens to be my member of congress, and they promote these conspiracy theories as if theres something to it. Its destructive to our society, its destructive to our democracy and were not going to recover that quickly . Who is your member . Lee zeldin. Hes a guy who thinks theres a conspiracy in every fbi office. He also represents me out in long island as well. Listen, roseanne has paid the price now. But you look at for and President Trump<\/a>s has she really, though . Go on. What do you mean by that . You know, okay, abc did this major move, and some people are saying, im shocked. But they made this major move, but its not over yet. The question is, will another network pick her up . And if they do, it negates everything that happened. And the television executive, a good friend of mine, sent me a text and said, look, lets see who picks her up, if shes picked up. So its not over. Were just going to wait and see. Trust me, Roseanne Barr<\/a> is also a business woman. And its about the economics as well. A lot of people are out of work. And i guarantee you shes working the phones, trying to revamp her image, and trying to see if this can fly. Okay, april. She took an action and paid the consequence for that action. Abc did act on this. Whether someone picks her up, thats their right. Maybe someone like info wars, or people who traffic in conspiracy theories, maybe theyll pick her up. This is america. Shell have a standup tour. Cosby did it. But cosby doesnt have a career. Its a different thing. He tried he tried. But people werent buying what he was selling. Shell go out there, play the red states and now shell know t soo shell be the hero. I wouldnt say all the red states. There will be a pocket of people. Who will rally to her and make her a hero. Lets talk about roseanne paid the price, so to speak. April said its not over yet. Billy bush, bill cosby, you mentioned. Matt lauer, maharvey weinstein, and the list goes on. But theres no consequence for this president. Well, there is no consequence because he was elected, as rereminds everyone and with help and were not allowed to ask about that. And hes now gamed the system the way he claims its gamed against him. We have no alternative but the democratic process. Its simpler than that. All these people had bosses. Donald trumps boss is the American People<\/a>. He gets his judgment when we get to vote again. And it is my, if not quite my belief, its my fervent hope, that once americans get to weigh in on this again, they will say, no, no, no, this isnt who we are. Thank you all. I appreciate it. But don, i want to go on, if you can do it in five seconds, april. Real fast, i believe black america, black leaders weighed on this president s mind today and thats one of the reasons why he did not say anything about roseanne in nashville. Because hes working with black leaders behind closed doors on an urban agenda as well as prison reform. And black leaders are not happy about what happened today so he kept quiet. Okay. I dont know. I dont know if im buying that. I dont think hes a politician. Who knows. We shall see. 5 00 a. M. To 6 30 is his twitter hot spot. Well see tomorrow morning. He wants to seem like hes not racist. Too late. Well see. When we come back, why has calling out racist behavior become a political issue . Well talk about how tribalminded political thinking seems to prevent people from calling out right and wrong. You wont see these folks at the post office they have businesses to run they have passions to pursue how do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters ship packages all the Amazing Services<\/a> of the post office right on your computer get a 4 week trial plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again in the wake of Roseanne Barr<\/a>s racist tweet, the cancellation of her show, is america so divided now that we cant even all agree that racism is evil and unacceptable . Rick wilson, the author of the book, everything trump touches dies and conservative commentator carrie sheffield. Roseanne barr is tweeting now. I understand she tweeted something about me retweeted and then deleted it. But its not roseanne its not don lemon cnn. Just don lemon, but she deleted it. She said, dont feel sorry for me, guys. I just want to apologize to the hundreds of people and wonderful writers, all liberal and talented actors who lost their jobs on my show due to my stupid tweet. I will be on joe rogans podcast on friday. What do you say . Own your own stuff, right . You know, Everybody Needs<\/a> to own their own stuff. But roseanne also needs to understand that old rules about holes and digging universally applies. And she ought to just take a deep breath and step back from twitter for a little while. This is not going to help her. Its not going to help those folks. I think we need a national breather on this particular story because its just a remarkable moment where were actually arguing whether something was racist, its the era we seem to find ourselves in. When it is, lets call it out. It doesnt behoove anybody to pretend its not real when its real. Thank you. She retweeted the tweet about me, not the one that i just read. Its still there . Is the retweet there . Shes watching . Anyway, it doesnt matter. Thanks for watching, roseanne. What do you say . I agree that, yes, it was a racist statement, and its important and im glad shes apologized. I will say that nobody is irredeemable, no matter what Hillary Clinton<\/a> says, roseanne is redeemable. What does it have to do with Hillary Clinton<\/a> . Were talking about roseanne. Absolutely. What does this have to do with Hillary Clinton<\/a> . It has to do with the fact that there is, in this situation, with abc, selective moral outrage. Cherrypicked virtue singling. Did you hear what rick said . Im sorry, carrie. I dont want the what aboutism. Can we stick to whats happening now and Hillary Clinton<\/a> is not president. Donald trump is president. Hillary clinton is not president. I know in an alternative universe that Hillary Clinton<\/a> is president. You would like that . No, i would not like that. Youre assuming something about me thats not necessarily true. This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton<\/a>, or who i hope would be president , nothing about that. So lets stop with the what aboutism and whats happening now. This is about Roseanne Barr<\/a>. This is about abc news and the fact that joy behar still has a job and roseanne does not. Its not about joy behar. Stop, please. Do you think krafetianichris a Mental Illness<\/a> . I dont want to give disinformation to the viewers. This is not about joy behar. Its about behavior by abc. If you can stick with what were talking about, Roseanne Barr<\/a>, then fine. Im not going down this line. Its ridiculous. Cornell west was just on he was on another program. He was on cnn. What he said was with roseanne and i agree with cornell west, what he said about her in this case, where he said, we need to love the sinner and hate the sin. So when i say that roseanne is redeemable, i am contradicting something that was said earlier, and i you can say that about her, but you dont have to bring in Hillary Clinton<\/a> to do that. Even the bible says that, god says that. Im sure your mom told you that. Why must you bring up Hillary Clinton<\/a> . I can bring up jayz, hes said foul, vulgar, Disgusting Things<\/a> about women, but jayz is redeemable. What does jayz have to do about it . This evening, we were talking about news, President Trump<\/a> mentioned jayz this evening and we know hes said misogynistic things about women. Why are you bringing up jayz . Hold on, hold on. This is the fact that conservatives have been shut out of hollywood. So you think everyone should be treated equally when it comes to who should have a job and who shouldnt, when they say things that are untoward . That are, okay, does that mean for the president of the United States<\/a> as well . Do you think the president of the United States<\/a> should lose his job for saying racist things . Do you think the president of the United States<\/a> should lose his job for saying for being a womanizer, for saying misogynistic things. Everyone is redeemable, including the president , including you, including madonna when she says she wants to blow up the white house, including everything on hbo all right, please. [ all speak at once ] carrie and i in many ways are on the same side of the ideological fence. But honestly, as a conservative, carrie, i beseech you, look at this problem for what it is. Lets have a conversation about the actual issue, not the ancillary issues, not the what aboutism issues. This is something we have to face directly. If you want abc to be accountable for other people, thats a separate discussion. And thats a separate matter. What we have right now is a person who behaved in a way how are you trying to separate it . Carrie, carrie . Excuse me bill maher used the n word. But were talking about roseanne. We have a situation right now where you have a person in the center of this political debate and the questions were answering right now are about roseanne and about these tweets and about what happened. And i think its a very legitimate question to ask for accountability broadly among institutions. However, in this case, were talking about roseanne. Were talking about what happened here and the character and nature of it here. And if you find yourself lured into this argument that what about hillary, what about barack, what about jayz, youre not answering the real question and that diminishes the impact of the moral answer you have to have when people display antisemitism and outright racism in this country. You have to do that. And as a conservative thats how i approach it, not because im some liberal s social justice warrior, but because i think racism is an abhorrent, disgusting practice and when we see it, we have to hammer it down, spray it like a cockroach and stamp it out. Just trying to throw up the flack on this other stuff is not where we need to go. You cant sweep that other stuff under the rug pch. Racism is disgusting. Its disgusting when bill maher says that women should be objectified and this talk of jayz [ speaking Foreign Language<\/a> ] hey, im conservatives have been shut out of that town. Okay, produce better content. [ all speak at once ] thank you. We cant fix it by pretending that its hillary. Eminem can insult the president and yet he also is misogynistic and hes applauded by hollywood. All right, bye. Bye, don. Well be right back. Every Fire Department<\/a> every Police Department<\/a> is part of a Bigger Picture<\/a>. That Bigger Picture<\/a> is statewide mutual aid. California years ago realized the need to Work Together<\/a>. Teamwork is important to protect the community, but we have to do it the right way. We have a working knowledge and we can reduce the impacts of a small disaster, but we need the help of experts. Pg e is an integral part of our Emergency Response<\/a> team. They are the Industry Expert<\/a> with utilities. Whether it is a gas leak or a wire down, just having someone there that deals with this every day is pretty comforting. We each bring something to the table that is unique and that is a specialty. With all of us working together we can keep all these emergencies small. And the fact that we can bring it together and effectively Work Together<\/a> is pretty special. They bring their knowledge, their tools and equipment and the proficiency to get the job done. And the whole time i have been in the fire service, pg es been there, too. Whatever we need whenever we need it. I do count on pg e to keep our firefighters safe. Thats why we ask for their help. President trump out with a new Conspiracy Theory<\/a> today, without offering even the tiniest bit of evidence, claiming in a tweet that Robert Mueller<\/a>s team will meddle in the upcoming midterm elections. I want to bring in author of the attention merchants and cnn julia hershfield davis, White House Reporter<\/a> for the New York Times<\/a>. Julie, you have new reporting tonight about the president asking Jeff Sessions<\/a> to reverse his decisions to recuse himself from the russia investigation. What happened . Well, weve all heard the president say publicly that he was very upset when sessions made the decision to recuse himself from the investigation, which was because he had misstated to Congress Several<\/a> times his meetings with russian officials. And so he stepped aside from the investigation. The president found out about this and was surprised by it and very angry. And almost immediately asked his aides whether this could be reversed or if they could do something about it, so that sessions could continue to be involved and essentially oversee this investigation from which hed stepped aside, and coinciding with this, he was also having a back and forth, the president was, with Jeff Sessions<\/a>, about his travel ban, which had to be revised and withdrawn, essentially, because it was facing legal challenges in court. And Jeff Sessions<\/a> was trying to reach the president. The president was not returning his calls. Hes furious about this recusal issues. Ultimately what happened Jeff Sessions<\/a> had to fly down to m maralago where the president was spending the weekend and have dinner with him to talk about this travel ban issue. But the issue that the president really wanted to talk about was the recusal. And he actually asked him to essentially unrecuse himself, to take back control of the investigation. Sessions said he couldnt do that, he wouldnt do that. But the president didnt let it go. And we also know that Robert Mueller<\/a>, the special counsel investigating russias interference in the election is now looking at this episode. And what it really tells you, its a much broader look into the possibility that the president was obstructing justice. And tim, youre nodding your head. What did you want to say . I just think that sounds so much like obstruction of justice, i dont know what to say about it. Trying to pressure him to walk away from one of the really dignifi dignified things sessions did, to admit he was conflicted here after lying on congress. My question, this happened over a year ago. Why are we just finding out about this now . Well, we find out bits and pieces of what the special counsel is looking at. And, you know, theres been no leaks of this investigation. Hes been very careful to make it, you know, difficult to discern whats going on. But when we found out several weeks ago about the list of questions he wanted to ask the president in his interview, which is under active negotiation now between the president and the special counsels team, there were some questions in there about Jeff Sessions<\/a>, and it has become clear hes a focus of this investigation. He could be a key witness in this investigation. And so we wanted to know more about what it was that he might know. And as i said, the president has said things publicly about being angry about sessions recusal. But the fact that he actually went and acted on that and requested that he undo stepping aside is quite something and it could be a Significant Development<\/a> in the investigation. In a separate report, julie, you and your colleague Maggie Haberman<\/a> also detailed a handful of conspiracy theories that trump perpetrated during his campaign, claiming the u. S. Government knew about the 9 11 attacks in advance and that Justice Scalia<\/a> was murdered, perpetuating the lie that president obama was born in kenya. And even tonight at a rally, hes pushing even more conspiracy theories about people infiltrating his campaign . Well, hes been discussing this, branding it spygate for the past several days now, basically seizing on this idea that the fbi had an informant that was contacting members of his Campaign Team<\/a> and saying that essentially that amounts to a scheme by barack obama and democratic operatives to send a spy into his campaign, to try to block him from being elected. What we know, what our reporting has told us about this informant is that the informant was sent in because a counterintelligence investigation had uncovered that the russians were potentially trying to interfere in the election and that Trump Campaign<\/a> associates had been communicating with people from moscow. Thats why the informant was sent in, not to investigate trump the candidate, but to investigate whether and how the russians were trying to interfere in our electoral politics. Tim, you say the president is so successful at pushing these kinds of conspiracy theories, offers simple slogans, repeats his arguments, speaks with authority. But you say its media access thats so critical to his success. What role does that play . I want to start with the conspiracy theories and make it clear what they are. Theyre a crucial part of a successful propaganda campaign. Because you need to have this kind of constructed reality for your followers, where it all comes consistently together. And it keeps people in and doing what he does the best, which is absolutely master the battle for attention. You know, its always about his story, whats going on here, and the conspiracy theories help keep this narrative alive, you know, that hes this great victim, even though hes the president , fighting this incredible battle against him from these evil foes. Then how do you stop it . How do you combat it . Its one of the greatest challenges that i think all of us are facing. Propaganda works. I mean, if you study the history of british or german or soviet propaganda, it works. You have two choices. You try to counterprogram and tell the truth, or you come up with your own narratives. And i think thats what the opposition of trump is struggling with right now, what is our story, other than saying trump is a liar and a racist, and all thats true, but its still part of his own story. And getting your own story is really the challenging part for any opposition. Its interesting you say that media access is plays a big part in it. Do you just stop reporting on it . Even though i mean, the American People<\/a> have to know. I think its difficult reporters are in a tough spot. Trump runs his presidency like a rating program, like a television program. And how do Television Programs<\/a> go down . They lose ratings. They start to disappear. So the easiest way for him to lose power is to lose his ratings. But on the other hand, do you not cover him . Thats irresponsible. Thats a real challenge were facing right now. Julia, i understand you had an interesting encounter tonight with a young child. You tweeted about it. Yeah, there was a young boy, probably about 8 or 9, who kept on sort of coming in front of the press pen and he had his iphone and he was yelling fake news, read all about it, and he was snapping pictures of us and recording video. And there was such disdain and hatred clearly for what the press was there to do, and it struck me how this is a child who will grow up, is growing up, believing that the free press is a force for evil, is to be mocked, is to be ridiculed, isnt to be believed. It was just a striking tab low. There was also a gentleman who spent most of the rally, instead of turning around and listening to what the president was saying, hes assume, i strong supporter of President Trump<\/a>, just yelling at and berating the journalists who were there to report on it. This is something weve all become used to, particularly my colleagues who covered the rally and the campaign. Its built into what he does. And at various points in the rally and he did tonight a couple of times, exalts people to turn around to ridicule or insult the press and they do that enthusiastically. Its all tied into the idea of conspiracy. You want to undercut the reporting of the truth so that you can have your narrative and tell whatever story you want to tell. Yeah, well, must be sad to be that angry, i cant imagine. Thank you, appreciate it. When we come back, on the same day Roseanne Barr<\/a> lost her job, starbucks shut down 8,000 stores for antiracist training. Whats the state of america, kamau bell weighs in, thats next. The first survivor of alzheimers disease is out there. And the Alzheimers Association<\/a> is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Visit alz. Org to join the fight. Roseanne barr is out of a job tonight after her disgusting racist twitter attack on Valerie Jarrett<\/a>. Kamau bell, joining me now, the host of united shades of america here on cnn. Sorry for mispronouncing your name. I know your mom is watching. Mom, im sorry. How you doing . What do you think . You know, its things escalated quickly, to quote will ferrell as anchor man. I was surprised abc made the decision so quickly to cancel her show, which leads me to believe, if we think it was hectic from the outside, it was even more hectic on the inside of that show. We keep saying abc did the right thing, they did. They got her off the show. Im surprised they did that so quickly. The right thing would be to have followed her on twitter from the beginning. Because everybody on twitter knows how roseanne tweets. Shes tweeting right now. Her twitter break was about four, five hours. Everybody who knows twitter knows how she tweets conspiracy theories and racism and fatshaming and islamophobia, thats what she does. So nobody who follows her on twitter is surprised by this. Its just that abc thought they could enter this game with her. But you know its Hillary Clinton<\/a>s fault or bill maher or joy behar or somebody elses fault. I gotta admit, its been pretty fun to see rightwing twitter trying to portray bill maher as a liberal hero. Liberal heroes know hes not a liberal hero. Good luck out there, everybody. Or that liberal people dont lose their jobs. Tell that to kathy griffin. And reza had a show on this network, sent out one tweet that people disagreed with and he lost his job. It happens on all sides. You cant predict when its going to happen is the thing. And its context behind everything. Everything is not equal, right. If that were the case, should this president even have a job . Well, thats the thing thats so thats the most frustrating thing for me. Our standard for sitcom star is higher than our standard for president. Everything that roseanne has done, donald trump has done a version of, or worse, and has also done it live in front of mem people, and he gets to be the president. My hope is that right now, as a country, were doing our situps to figure out what to do with donald trump as president. Roseanne has entered into an agreement with corporate america. You have to know theres certain things you can and cant do when you do that. She did the wrong thing, shes out. But what about our president . Our president is on stage right now, talking about conspiracy theories. Its Hillary Clinton<\/a>s fault. So i just want two play this was starbucks, you know, they shut down the 8,000 stores today. This is part of their training video today. Watch this. I was in the cafe of my store and there was a line of about six people. And i saw a man come in who was kinda scruffy, kind of looked messily dressed and he walked up to a woman who was about halfway in line. And i wasnt close enough to hear what they were saying, but i saw him hold his hand out to her, and she reached into her purse. And i walked right up to them and i said, sir, you cannot panhandle and ask my customers for money in my store. And the woman looked at me and said, he is my husband. Was she talking about you . Didnt that happen to you . I was trying to remember. I was like, that sounds familiar. I dont think i had that exact thing happen but something pretty close to that, yeah. So, yeah, starbucks closes for a few hours to talk about racism. Theres you know, they say were at peak tv. Were at peak coffee. You dont have to go to starbucks. Thats not the only option. Yes, lets end racism, but i dont know that we can do it in a few hours in starbucks. I think it takes a bigger discussion than that. We can go on and talk about studies and all that. But you know why im so animated tonight, people come on and they do the what aboutism and try to say, okay, basically theyre saying its okay because somebody else did it. I dont even want to say this because i dont even want to go there. But its just really infuriating when people think this is a game and were talking about racism. Its not. Peoples lives and livelihoods are at stake. And the level of things we will put up with, we are beginning to put up with less and less because the consequences are more dire, especially in the trump administration. Because while were also talking about this subject of roseanne, a study came out about puerto rico today that more people died in hurk due to the hurricane than the government of puerto rico reported. So these are life and death consequences for the decisions that are made by this administration in the people who support them. Thank you, sir. Always appreciate it. Make sure you catch united shades of america sunday nights at 10 00, right here on cnn. When we come back, starbucks shutting down more than 8,000 stores to train its employees against racial bias. But will it prevent another infamous incident like the one in philadelphia last month . Starbucks ceo joins me next. You wont see these folks at the post office they have businesses to run they have passions to pursue how do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters ship packages all the Amazing Services<\/a> of the post office right on your computer get a 4 week trial plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again we told you that starbucks closed 8,000 stores today for four hours. 175,000 employees took part in a training to combat racial bias. Take a look at this. It can be easy to see the bias of someone else when it comes at you in the form of not seeing you or excluding you, or someone not treating you with dignity or respect, or the small but annoying thing that puts you down. But you know what, its not always easy to see our own bias as a human being. What causes us not to treat others with respect, dignity, or do not include them. As you can see, that was common. Joining us now, kevin johnson, the president and ceo of starbucks. Thank you for coming on. Good evening to you. Good evening. How did it go today . It was a big day. It was a big day. We closed over 8,000 stores, and we had all of our partners attend this antibias training ka that weve been working on for the last month or so. So it was a foundational event for the company and in many ways it was an investment in our future. Theres a lot of material. This is some of the things, some of literature you gave your employees. Theres a work book, a guide book. Its extensive. How did you go about creating all this material . Well, first we had some independent advisers that really helped us out quite a bit. Sherylin aisle, Heather Mcghee<\/a> and brian stevenson, they helped put us in touch with over 30 experts in a variety of areas, whether it was social behavior, bias training, neuroscience. And from that, we basically crafted what we think is an experiential learning exercise for all of our partners. You mentioned a couple names. Ill go through them. Not only common, but others on board to help. Eric holder, former attorney general, the president director counsel for the naacp fund, which is Legal Defense<\/a> fund, and Antidefamation League<\/a> ceo jonathan greenblatt. What do you think the best advice was that they gave to you . Well, i think collectively, they looked at this through years of experience, really living and understanding these issues. And so for us, they gave us advice on how to think about the most impactful ways to create experiences for people to understand this. And i think they gave us advice on who to tap into, who are the experts in the industry that could add some value to what were trying to create. The training incident stemmed from two black who were arrested while waiting for a friend at the philadelphia starbucks. Since then, weve seen the cops white people calling police on black people for barbecuing, for shopping for the prom. So what do you think do you understand now why better why this keeps happening . Well, certainly this is a socie societal issue and race and racial bias has been present in the United States<\/a> for centuries. So the fact this happened in one of our stores really put us front and center at really understanding how that could have happened in our store, understanding every aspect of what happened and what we could do that was a positive, constructive step forward. Is andwe view this as one step in a journey. This is not the only step. It is a step, and we feel like its a very positive first step. Glad you mentioned that. What do you say to people who say, its one afternoon, its going to take way more than that . Theyre right. You agree . Absolutely, i agree. Thats why weve architected what we put together as this day where we close the stores and trained 175,000 partners, but we now have 12 followon modules that will go on. Each month well drop another module for our store partners to continue on this journey. This is just the beginning . Just the beginning. Can you believe on all days that youre doing our training, youre closing down 8,000 Stores Across<\/a> the country and then roseanne is fired for racist tweets, racist comments . What do you think of that . I think its just evidence that this exists in society. And in many ways, i think what we need is for people to get involved and take a positive, constructive step forward. Don, ive had numerous ceos of Companies Large<\/a> and small, reach out to me with interest in what we are doing, because they too are searching for positive, constructive things they can do. So our intent is that were going to focus on doing this and doing this the right way for starbucks. But were very willing to share all the materials and all the learnings that weve gone through with others. Last time i spoke to you, you got very emotional about this. What has this experience been like for you . Well, you know, id say its a very personal experience. I was on the ground here in philadelphia and personally met with as many people as i could, including dante and rish aun and understand what their experience was like and how this affected the community in philadelphia, and how this affected my starbucks partners. And then a deep sense of accountability to get involved and be accountable for making the decisions to take on a very difficult topic, the discussion of race and bias, and do it in a way that can make us a better company. So its been a very personal and a rewarding journey. Thank you. Thank you, don. Well be right back. Ahh. Summer is coming. And its time to get outside. Pack in even more adventure with audible. With the Largest Selection<\/a> of audiobooks. Audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track. Or discover magic when you hit the open road. With the free audible app, your stories go wherever you do. And for just 14. 95 a month you get a credit, good for any audiobook. If you dont like it exchange it any time. No questions asked. You can also roll your credits to the next month if you dont use them. So take audible with you this summer. On the road. On the trail. Or to the beach. Start a 30day trial and your first audiobook is free. Cancel anytime, and your books are yours to keep forever. No matter where you go this summer make it better with audible. Text summer5 to 500500 to start listening today. When disaster strikes, top ten cnn heroes stan hayes and his buddies bring comfort to those in need. This week stan is expanding his service to honor those who serve our country all year long. Were here with the Gary Sinese Foundation<\/a> at the invincible spirit festival. How you guys doing . You want a pulled pork sandwich . Were cooking for 6,500 to 7,000 people. Being here where these men and women have given so much while protecting and serving our country, its pretty special. This is an awesome event. The barbecue is stellar. Barbecues about bringing people together. For us, this is the biggest thank you we can give those men and women that have served. To find out more about operation bbq relief or to nominate someone you think should be a cnn hero, go to cnnheroes. Com. Thanks for watching. Ill see you back here tomorrow. The roseanne reboot is no more. Canceled after racist comments from comedienne Roseanne Barr<\/a>. Overnight, she blames ambien and says others have gotten away with worse. I am even more convinced that the fbi did exactly what my fellow citizens would want them to do. How about that . A public congressman, trey gaud gowdy, saying trump a","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia803105.us.archive.org\/26\/items\/CNNW_20180530_070000_CNN_Tonight_With_Don_Lemon\/CNNW_20180530_070000_CNN_Tonight_With_Don_Lemon.thumbs\/CNNW_20180530_070000_CNN_Tonight_With_Don_Lemon_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}