Have to worry about the sentencing guidelines. So i hear you on that. Let me bounce this to you, garber, because wheres the there there . There is no case. I get the sentencing guidelines, but we dont even have charges. So what is there to flip on, and what would he have to flip with . Yeah. So heres the problem. Ive represented a lot of folks under investigation, and the problem is before you even get to the sentencing guidelines, theres the investigation. I mean think of Michael Cohen. Think of being him and having your office raided, reading about yourself every day in the newspaper, having your career taken away from you, everything, and potentially losing your livelihood, everything, everything, everything. And that, that notion alone, focuses the mind. All right. And many of us in the media, we talk to Michael Cohen. I certainly do. This has been difficult for him, but we still dont know what the case is about, so we really dont know where the sympathies should lie. Another point for you, jeffrey,
on how real the flipping could be. If prosecutors believe that he knows something thats so valuable that it would overwhelm whatever they have on him, whatever that is, why Hasnt Mueller asked to talk to him . Well, we dont know that he hasnt. I mean, you know, theres a lot we dont know about this investigation. What degree now, he is under investigation now from the fortunately prosecutors in manhattan, the Southern District of new york. Right. Theyre the people who got the Search Warrant. But if there is a cooperation agreement, whether its immunity then its with everybody. Exactly. You cant pick and choose once youve agreed to cooperate. So, you know, you make a very fair point here, which is we dont know what, if any, crime he will be charged with. But, look, they got a Search Warrant to search his offices. They didnt pick his name out of the phone book. I mean they got a Search Warrant for a lawyers office. Thats very unusual. That usually requires a very substantial showing of probable cause or even more. So you could even tell in cohens interview with stephanopoulos, he knows hes at tremendous risk here. Thats why the change in tone, i think. You know, counselor garber, youre representing donald trump. Michael cohen is hanging out there in the wind. Do you allow him to be isolated the way they have apparently done to him . Do you not pay his fees, leave him out there, nobody talks to him. Lets him get beat up in the media. Theres nothing subtle about Whats Going On here with cohen. Are you surprised by how theyre playing this on team trump . So but heres the difficulty. The time to make that decision was probably earlier. The concern id have now, if i were on team trump, is making a move now to pardon him, making a move now to pay his fees. What about pay his bills and
say, look, this is an extension of what he was doing for me, im going to pay his bills. Im not even sure thats ethical at this point. Remember, he is a position to i mean cohen is in a position to cooperate against trump. If trump starts paying his legal fees, i mean i think guy petrillo, the lawyer, might not even but all of this supposedly extends from Whats Going On. And how do you know petrillo is not going to accept it . He wants to get paid, doesnt he . He does, but there are certainly ethical obligations on lawyers that you cant be paid essentially to fail to cooperate against someone. Garber, do you agree . Yeah, well, thats sort of my point. If what hes being paid for his fees are being paid for, you know, for his legal defense, as you say, chris, arising out of his activities with the trump organization, thats one thing. But if hes being paid to not cooperate, to not talk, that becomes problematic. And if i were representing
trump, id probably tell him, look, you should assume that right now, right now Michael Cohen is cooperating. So you shouldnt be talking to anybody about we know hes been cooperating, right . Everybody who asks him for stuff, he produces it. Were talking about something else. Were talking about him working with prosecutors on a but thats what cooperation is. I dont think we know that Michael Cohen is cooperating. He had his office searched. He didnt have any choice in that. But is he meeting with prosecutors . Is he telling him the full story of his relationship with donald trump, all of his Business Dealings including in the Taxi Industry . I dont think we know whether cohen is doing that. We dont, but let me say the fact that he had his office searched doesnt mean hes not cooperating. Ive represented cooperators who still have their offices searched. If i were on team trump, i would be very careful. If you were a prosecutor or agent right now, this would be a pretty interesting dangle. Youd want to dangle this out
and see how team trump reacts to it. Its also weird that they dont have anybody talking to him. Assuming that thats true, to just leave him out there, all right, you guys have convinced me. You dont want to pay his legal bills. I believe you guys. Two against one. But to have nobody talking to him, nobody telling him its going to be okay. Very odd in the world of politics. Very odd in trump world as well, jeffrey. And its going to be an interesting play here because Michael Cohen feels forgotten clearly. He does feel forgotten, but this is why lawyers tell everyone involved to shut up, because if trump were to Start Talking to cohen, that could be used against trump later on. It doesnt have to be him. Well, or someone it could be you. It could be someone who knows both, who is a liaison. I understand that, but that could be spun perhaps persuasively as an attempt to influence his testimony, and that, i think, is something that the trump team would certainly want to avoid. I dont even understand why
cohen did this interview with george stephanopoulos. I think he would have been better off just keeping his mouth shut. This is why lawyers tell people, keep your mouth shut. But what does it tell us that he did decide to speak. That hes freaking out. When you leave somebody out there, it should not be unusual to any of you watching us three good looking gentlemen watching tonight, that hes going to choose his family over somebody who used to be his best friend. Good to have you both. Welcome to the show. Good to be here. You know who else might have something to say about this . The one and only anthony scaramucci. A lot to talk to him about. Look at him there. Good to have him on the show. Lets get some insight into what the president is thinking on some very key things going on in our government. Right back with anthony, next. Ballpark. Ue [park announcer] all Military Members stand and be recognized. Sometimes fans cheer for those who wear a different uniform. No matter where or when you served, tmobile stands ready to serve you. Thats why were providing half off family lines to all military. If you have moderate to thsevere rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. Ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. Humira can help stop the clock. Prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. Talk to your rheumatologist. Right here. Right now. Humira. Rewards me basically aeverywhere. Om so why am i hosting a dental convention after party in my vegas suite . Because hotels. Com lets me do me. Who wants to floss me . Hotels. Com. You do you and get rewarded. [ drum roll ]. Emily lapier from ames, iowa. This is emilys third nomination and first win. Um. So, just. Wow um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. And of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts no, i have to say it
for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. Safe driving crisp leaves of lettuce. Freshly made dressing. Clean food that looks this good. Delivered to your desk. Now delivering to home or office. Panera. Food as it should be. Panera. With tripadvisor, finding your Perfect Hotel at the lowest price. Is as easy as dates, deals, done simply enter your destination and dates. And see all the hotels for your stay tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites. To show you the lowest prices. So you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you. Dates, deals, done tripadvisor. Visit tripadvisor. Com all right. It is a big week for President Trump. Hes deciding on a Supreme Court nominee. Hes gearing up for a summit with vladimir putin, and hes taking a lot of criticism from democrats for separating families at the border. We have former White House Communications director anthony scaramucci, close to the president , understands his thinking and the policy plays. Good to have you, especially on a week where no one is around, it seems, anthony. Happy Fourth Of July, chris. Good to have you. Its good to be here. So help me understand a couple of things here. First the Michael Cohen situation. What do you thinks going on
with cohen talking to the media and putting out these none too subtle hints that he will take care of himself . Well, listen, i see it a little bit differently, and i did talk to michael this morning because i wanted to get some clarification from him, and i knew i was coming on your show. So lets go over the different layers of what he says. On the first layer, him saying that hes loyal to his family and his country is not incongruous with him also being loyal to the president , who happens to still be a close friend of Michael Cohens. So i think theres a little bit of an exaggeration going on in the media right now where thats a warning shot, indication, and all that other stuff. I think thats very consistent. Second layer has to do with the fbi. Michael said right after the raid, i think he tweeted it out that he was, you know, treated well by the fbi, and they about very, very professional to him. Right. And so, again, people are saying that thats against the president. I actually dont think so. The president s been very clear
that theres a very thin layer of people inside the fbi that he feels weaponized that agency. But he really loves the rank and file, and he loves law enforcement. Its a mixed message, but i agree with you that i dont think that thats whats playing here. It seems that cohen is taking opportunities. Yeah. To speak to the media that seem very purposeful. Well, i think, again, i think jeff made mention earlier. Do you talk to the media or not talk to the media when youre under the potential of investigation . Most lawyers would say no, but i think in this case, i think michaels trying to signal to people that he really doesnt feel that he did anything wrong, and hes trying to signal to people frankly that hes not a villain in the case. And so its 12 1 2 weeks, chris, since that raid on his familys residence and his hotel room, et cetera. So lets see what happens. When Paul Manafort had his problem, i think it was eight or nine weeks later they rendered
an indictment. Right. So i think once we know what that indictment is, then you and i can sit down and discuss what the potential much better because right now were talking about him flipping, and i agree. I get the speculation, especially with all these reports coming out with friends of his who say he might. There arent any charges. So well hold on this one until a person thats had a 12year very a person had a 12year very close relationship with then mr. Trump. I think the threshold standard here of, quote, unquote, flipping is very high. And the last point i want to make is if the president did anything wrong, and i take the president at his word, theres nothing to flip over, chris. That we dont know, and certainly hes allowed Michael Cohen to feel very isolated and underfunded for his own defense. Those were calculations. Well see how they come back. Well, i dont like that strategy. I agree with you on that. I can understand why you dont like it. Let me ask you about a couple other things while i have you
because i know time is short tonight. Second, why would the white house deny the request to lower the flags for the victims of the Capital Gazette newspaper mass murder . Why do that . Yeah. You know, its a tough one, chris. Im not really . You dont think its a nobrainer. I dont know what the Protocol Standard well, i certainly would do it. Right . But there might be some pushback as it relates to the military and when the flags get lowered and no, theres no protocol. They did it after vegas. They did it after parkland. They did it for barbara bush. Im not criticizing any of these moves, but he could have done it. Again, im not here to apologize for the white house. I certainly would have done it. It just seems like when the stuff goes straight up to the president , it gets done properly. And so my question would be to the people inside the white house, does the president know that because hes a very compassionate guy. You know, he switched the policy on the separation of the children once he got his arms around it. He started the policy of the
separation of the children. And then he put out an Executive Order that was fugazi as a 5 rolex. He didnt fix anything. Okay. Were going to push back on each other now. He actually did not start that policy. It started under the george w. Bush administration. No, not like this, anthony. It was partially prosecuted during the obama he did Zero Tolerance. Hold on a second. He told sessions to do it. He liked it. Chris, read my oped. I did. Read my oped today in the usa today. Its very declarative. It explains exactly how it got started, and you got to give him credit for reversing it. Lets stipulate that he did promulgate it to use your words. Give him credit for recognizing that he was wrong and making the reversal. He never said he was wrong. I think its very good of the president well, he said it by his actions, didnt he . He reversed the policy. No. You would say it. Thats what a man does in a situation like that. Thats what a leader does, man or woman. He didnt do it. He said he fixed it with an Executive Order that didnt fix it. Theyre still separated. Its still a mess. He he changed it, and weve got to put the families back together. The first ladys been down to the border twice. I agree with you that its a problem. I agree with you that its the wrong policy. Is it going to beat him in november . Quinnipiac poll comes out and says immigration has now taken over the economy in terms of what will drive peoples votes. He had high ground on this with enforcement. Then he crushed those kids. I agree. I agree with that, and i he handed it to the democrats with this one move. Well, i think hes going to fix it. Theres a long time youre from a political family. Theres a long time to go here between now and november. I got warm blood pumping through my heart. Thats how i understand this. You dont have to understand politics for this, anthony. It was an insensitive, inhumane move, and even trump had to back off. He didnt apologize like a normal leader would, but he had to back off. As surprising as it might be to your viewers, you and i are actually agreeing on this. Youre just agreeing with me. You dont want to give the guy any credit for switching the policy. Yeah, i dont. Not when you start it. It doesnt work like that in terms of accountability. But, anthony, you know what does count . You coming on Fourth Of July week even though your about five steps from my house in southampton. Go stop over there. Im happy to be here and i feel bad that youre not, chris. Ive got to do my job. Thank you for helping me do it. This quinnipiac poll. This is very unusual for immigration to be this high. I know theres a flash point right now. Who knows if it sustains . But what is the democrat play here . Abolish i. C. E. . This growing, rallying cry for democrats. Are they bailing trump out on the immigration issue . Were going to have a great debate about that. What do you say . Next. Does your Business Internet provider promise a lot . Lets see who delivers more. Comcast business gives you gigspeed in more places. The others dont. We offer up to 6 hours of 4g Wireless Network backup. Everyone else, no way. We let calls from any of your devices come from your business number. Them, not so much. We let you keep an eye on your business from anywhere. The others . Nope get internet on our gigspeed network and add voice and tv for 34. 90 more per month. Call or go on line today. No child should have to live in fear of a government tearing away their parents. But listen to this. 12yearold leah telling her emotional story at one of the nationwide protests to keep undocumented Families Together this weekend. I. C. E. Wants to take my mom away from me. I dont like to live with this fear. Its scary. I cant sleep. I cant study. I am stressed. I am afraid that they will take my mom away while she is at work, out driving, or at home. I dont understand why this administration Wont Support Mothers who just want a better life for their children. Now, kids like that could be the face of trumps trouble come november, all right . Yet what are we seeing from the democrats when it comes to this issue . Abolish i. C. E. That is the making of a great debate, and we have two great debaters. Nina turner an