You can see it weeknights 6 25 p. M. Eastern at facebook. Com Anderson Cooper full circle. Right now the news continues. I want to hand it over to chris cuomo for cuomo prime time. Chris . All right. Thank you, anderson. I am chris cuomo. Plm to prime time. We have new information about what may be next for Michael Cohen. If hes going to deal with any more authorities. And the president s latest legal misstep. Trump has twisted his story once again about the payments made by his lawyer to help his campaign. And this latest one has him tied up in knots. We have trumps former lawyer, whom he called for advice about how to handle the cohen situation. What he thought then and now. And you know the president is on his heels with what just happened because he whipped out his what about defense. What about obama . He did it too. No, he didnt. We have the facts ahead. And a convicted felon gets some
very high praise from the president , raising a question. Will Paul Manafort soon be getting a pardon . What do you say . Lets get after it. The president has basically said it all when it comes to the payments. I deny the women. I deny knowing anything. I deny knowing before. Now he says i only knew after. And i made the payments, so there is no problem. These comments coming just one day after Donald Trumps former personal attorney pleaded guilty to eight criminal counts and said in front of the judge and at risk of losing his plea deal, which seems to make the most sense. Trump directed him to do it all. Lets bring in trumps adviser and attorney for over 20 years, also a former prosecutor, and author of a forthcoming back, the courtroom is my theater,
jay goldberg. Welcome, counselor. How are you, chris . Im doing well. Well, the title of your book how are you, chris . Im doing well. The title of your book wraps well into what were dealing with here, which is the theater of the absurd. What do you make of the situation with Michael Cohen and how did you know it would come to this . Well, i said to the president as early as april, after it was announced that there would be a that there had been a search and a seizure, that Michael Cohen would turn into a government witness, that donald had to be careful, that there would be Tape Recordings and that it would be very dangerous, that the public might not understand the role that a government witness seeking to win the favor of the government plays in our Criminal Justice system. What disturbed me is that the
people take at face value the fact that Michael Cohen will say certain things, but its been a verty in our system that people who seek to win the applause or cooperation of the government generally and often change their testimony to satisfy the government. And i want the public to know that Michael Cohen cant be counted on to tell the whole truth simply because hes testifying for the government. Well hes likely to say things that will yes. Listen, i understand that in the System People often will play to advantage. And if it helps them get a better deal for themselves, theyre more inclined to say certain things. But as a former prosecutor you know, youre not supposed to frontrun false testimony. They have a duty to figure out whether or not Michael Cohen is believable on these same matters. And at least with respect to the
Chris Cuomo asks the tough questions to newsmakers in Washington and around the world. The possibility of a perjury trap or a conspiracy but they can only get you if you lie to them. They can only get you if you lie to them, though no, thats not true. But theyre going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what you said was a lie. If the question is did something happen on tuesday . And trump says it happened on wednesday. If Michael Cohen says it happened on tuesday and the government has some support for that proposition its got to be material. Trump will be involved in a perjury trap. Its got to be material. What i asked you, though, counselor you did a nice job there twisting it around on me. Ill give you that. But let me pull you back with the original question. Do you believe he could sit in the chair and tell the truth the whole time . I think theres a question whether, from past experience, i could count comfortably on him testifying. In fact, when i spoke to him in april, i said to him do not
focus on the bigger question. Think about that. His friend, a counselor who knows him, says yeah, i think theres an issue about whether hed be able to tell the truth the whole time sitting across and hed be concerned the prosecutors are out to get him. Think about that. Now, what does this tell us . Well, if the president is going to say this now, hes going to now argue in the alternative, even if i did know about the scheme to pay off my own peccadillos, i still did nothing wrong. And what is the Alternative Theory . Obama is the Real Campaign criminal. Many are covering these as competing claims. Not here. No false equivalence e y allowe. Facts ahead. Stop dancing around the pain thats keeping you awake. Advil pm gives tossing and turning a rest and silences aches and pains. Fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer with advil pm. Fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer with tripadvisor, finding your Perfect Hotel at the lowest price. Is as easy as dates, deals, done simply enter your destination and dates. And see all the hotels for your stay tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites. To show you the lowest prices. So you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you. Dates, deals, done tripadvisor. Visit tripadvisor. Com
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2 dogs and jake over here . That would be great. That would be great. That okay with you, jake . Get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change from Td Ameritrade investment management. All right. We did a lot of scrubbing on the facts for you tonight. Why . Because we knew President Trump wouldnt admit to what his former lawyer Michael Cohen made clear in court, that trump directed cohen to commit crimes. We knew he was going to go bad on cohen personally. But theres another line of attack that may be his weakest yet. Remember we played you the tape on this show that made it clear that trump was aware of what cohen was doing before he did it. So and you heard his lawyer just say yes, hes lying about that. So the new line is this. Obama did the same thing. In fact, he likes this excuse so much, so nice, he used it twice. Once in a tweet and then this. They didnt come out of the campaign. They came from me. And i tweeted about it. I dont know if you know. But i tweeted about the payments. But they didnt come out of campaign. In fact, my first question when i heard about it was did they come out of the campaign . Because that could be a little dicey. And they didnt come out of the campaign. And thats fake. But they werent thats not its not even a campaign violation. If you look at president obama, he had a Massive Campaign violation but he had a different Attorney General and they viewed it a lot differently. Here we dont just listen. We test. First off, the only thing that trump is right about is that there was a violation involving the Obama Campaign, a big one. Youve got to remember, every conspiracy theory, like every lie, theyre all fed by a kernel of truth. But this story that hes telling
is all cob except for that one kernel. Obama didnt do anything personally. His campaign. Okay . Obama for america. They did plenty. They failed to report 1,300 contributions within 48 hours as required by law. And that campaign received some contributions. It also exceeded allowable limits. In total, the contributions amounted about 2 million. So the Campaign Paid a percentage. 375,000 in fines. It sounds like a lot. And it was. But relatively, in the words of one election attorney, obama was the first billiondollar president ial campaign. So proportionally, its not that out of line. Regardless, it was still wrong. And trump and anyone else who says this type of violation is nothing needs to remember how little control we have on Campaign Contributions to begin with. So reporting really counts. All right. Im digressing. Heres what really matters here. Okay . Now, what happened here in the cohen case is a different animal entirely. This has nothing to do with the Campaign Apparatus and everything to do with trump, his lawyer, and their sneaky scheme to avoid more damage to his campaign. Cohen admitted to making illegal Campaign Contributions for the principal purpose of influencing an election. And he tied it directly to the president , saying he was acting at the president s direction. He said someone then running for federal office. Obviously its donald trump. When he paid off Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels. So the president s argument that cohen didnt commit a crime just isnt true. How do we know . Title 52 of the u. S. Code. All right . Now, you compare that to the Obama Campaign violation. Its like comparing apples to, you know, elephants. The obama matter was settled as a civil matter with the f. E. C. All right . Cohen intentionally committed a crime and is going to prison. And by the way, if the president wants to compare his campaign to obamas, this is why i popped this up. Trumps team also got in trouble in 2016 for improperly handling Campaign Contributions. About 1,100 donations were made to Trumps Campaign in violation of Campaign Finance laws including donations that exceeded the allowable limit in a year. So not only did obama not do what trump did, but yes, trump did do what obamas campaign did. Now, cohen paying his peccadillos, for his peccadillos. Him saying he didnt know. The real problem here is lying. So first trump said i know nothing about these women, i know nothing about what cohen did. Then he said, well, all right, i know a Little Something but i didnt know anything before, i only knew after. Thats what hes saying today. But we know about the tape. The tape that we got here on this show that makes it clear that at a time before cohen made a payment trump clearly knew and was directing him. Listen. I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david so that im going to do that right away. Ive actually come up and ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with so what are you going to pay . Funding yes. And its all the stuff. You never know where that company you never know maybe he gets hit by a truck. Correct. So im all over that. Spi spoke to allen about it. When it comes down for the financing which would be what financing . Well have to pay something pay cash. No, no, no. Ive got no, no, no. That was before he made the payment. You hear trump. He knows whats going on. Hes lying to your face when he says he didnt know until after. So now hes saying you know what, forget about what i said about what i knew or what i didnt know and when, i paid all of it back. So first of all, we dont know that for a fact. But lets assume it. Lets give the president the benefit of the doubt. I paid all of it back, so no one contributed anything for me. I call this going the full buckley versus vallejo, for you scotus scholars. Thats a case that says you can spend as much of your own money as you want on your own campaign. Money is seen as political speech. But even if that were true, the president still didnt report it. Anywhere. And that alone would trigger the statute and put him in violation of the law. So then he says, please, no one gets prosecuted for that. Tell john edwards. His Hush Money Scheme was handled in similar fashion and he was tried. He was prosecuted. He was acquitted but after a
full trial. And then today trumps Sarah Sanders took it a step further. Not only did trump do nothing illegal, as cohen accuses, but listen to this. No. Im not going to play it for you. She says he did nothing wrong. Okay . So lying to you is not wrong. Lying repeatedly about criminal conduct is not wrong. I showed you the facts. You can conclude quickly that this trumpian bar of no crime means i did nothing wrong, that my friends is wrong. So what is going to happen with all this politically . The democrats are playing it in an interesting way. Okay . Theyre not talking impeachment. Theyre saying no, no, no, were not ready for that, lets see what happens. But they are now using it as a way to perhaps stop Trumps Supreme Court pick. Is that going to work here . Were going to be talking about that and see if the cohenmanafort developments are a game changer the way Chuck Schumer says they are. What do you say . A great debate for you. Next. Sarah always chooses to take the stairs. The president told you, dont believe what youre reading or seeing. Is that because what youre seeing and hearing prove that hes lying . Lets ask our great debaters to take it on. Jennifer granholm and steve cortes. Steve, lets see if we can go 2 for 2 on the candor meter. His former Attorney Says youve got to focus on collusion, but in terms of whether or not hes lying about these payments, yeah, hes lying and the public has a right to be upset about that. Will you own that reality as well . Well, listen, we have to be very careful about the facts here. And chris, when you keep playing that tape, youre misrepresenting the facts because that tape is talking about the payments to Karen Mcdougal which were made by American Media and assuming that david is david pecker in that tape the fact of the matter is neither trump nor cohen ever paid them. So youre conflating two stories. The Stormy Daniels payment is totally different from the Karen Mcdougal payment. So trump can truthfully say that
he didnt know about that no, no, no. Because there was no payment. I give you that they are different payments. I never said anything else, by the way. Ive always represented that was about Karen Mcdougal and david pecker. However and also, youre assuming that david pecker doesnt say the same thing that Michael Cohen does. Youd better check your facts. However, the point remains the same, steve. Ill bounce it over to you, jennifer granholm. He says trump did not pay david pecker. He didnt pay American Media. He didnt pay Karen Mcdougal. Its about what he knew about what was being done on his behalf. Thats why Michael Cohen had to plead guilty to two counts. One for they were discussing paying for something and they never paid for it. Facts are important here, chris. They discussed paying. They never did in that case. No. You are making a distinction that makes no difference in the analysis. It makes all the difference in the world. I can talk about buying a house. If i dont buy it i didnt buy it. Did you know that we were considering you buying a house and how to do it . Did you know or not . Thats thats not material. Its absolutely material. Hes not lying because he didnt do it. Thats not the standard of whether or not hes lying about knowing about what was going on. Jennifer granholm, whats your case . I mean, really, steve, bless your heart for trying to get trump out of this soup, but he knew that he was paying off women. Thats the bottom line. And its a good thing that weve got evidence other than Michael Cohens testimony. Theres the tape. And who knows what other evidence that the Mueller Investigation has thats Documentary Evidence or Testimonial Evidence from other people. What is Allen Weisselberg saying . We dont have any idea whats behind the scenes. But as to this notion that trump did not know, its totally by the tape. And even if he knew doesnt matter hes not a crime. And i paid all the money that
was paid by Michael Cohen so nobody contributed anything for me. Theres still the Recording Requirement in the statute, steve. So there would still be a legal aspect thats not true. Thats not true. If and again, we have to be careful here. Election law is clear. If an expenditure would have been made, irrespective of the campaign, thats the phrase thats used in election law, if it would have been made anyway then it is not deemed