Trenches digging up 1990s attacks on hillary and bill clinton. Will that tactic work . White male voters are flocking to trump but in a demographics, can they be his margin of victory . Multiple polls have a virtual heat between trump and hillary. The polls this early could be way off, but first memorial day weekend is of course a time to honor those who have served and traditionally signals the start of summer. And this summer is going to be dominated by two major party conventions. But first, theres a convention this weekend in orlando where the Libertarian Party will nominate its candidates tomorrow. The stage suddenly seems set for libertarianism to move from College Dorm Rooms to mainstream households. Many headlines were written this week about National Polls showing donald trump and Hillary Clinton in a dead heat, buried within the data a much different story emerged. An abc news the Washington Post poll showed trump beating clinton 46 to 44 while Trump Supporters were asked why they were for their candidate, 53 said they oppose hillary. When hillary supporters were asked why they support their candidate, 48 said its to oppose trump. Equally telling, 57 said they have negative impressions of both major candidates. In a separate survey almost half of voters, 45 , said theyd be open to a thirdparty candidacy if donald trump and clinton are the nominees. And thats why theres been so much talk this season about thirdparty candidates, but only one party besides the democratic and Republican Party will be on the ballot in all 50 states, and thats libertarians. Is america ready for a ticket based on economic conservatism and social liberalism . Id argue yes while the loudest voices among those tend to be those who tether themselves to extremism most americans are more independent in their thinking and far more centrist in their views. Whether libertarians can make a play for that vote depends on the candidates making it to the debate state. The commission on president ial debates requires a showing of 15 in the National Polls for that to happen, but first, libertarians need to be included in those polls. I hope the major polling outlets will include them in their surveys. A party that has Ballot Access in 50 states deserves that treatment. If they meet the 15 mark, libertarians could raise the value of the debates by forcing the left and right to defend their views against independent thinking. Joining me now is gary johnson, the former governor of new and william well, the former governor of massachusetts. Governor Johnson Bernie sanders has had to explain democratic socialism. I think youre going to be called upon to explain libertarianism. What is it . You set the table perfectly. Libertarianism is being fiscally conservative, socially liberal and, hey, when it comes to military interventions, i think military intervention has resulted in a world that is less safe as opposed to more safe. Thats it in a nutshell. Were offering a unique combination that i think combines the best much what its supposed to be to beat a republican and combines the best of whats its supposed to be a democrat. Most people are really somewhere in the middle and right now given the polarization of hillary and trump, i think the vast majority of americans are libertarian, they just dont know it. Governor, are you libertarian enough for that crowd behind you . Ive always described myself as a libertarian. I agree with governor johnson. We dont have to come out of a bloc saying were antitrump or antimrs. Clinton. All we have to do is say we dont agree with either party. We dont agree with the antiabortion and antigay rights, lets make personal life decision for you, and its either the republicans in washington, and we dont agree with the endless reckless spending on the democratic side in washington and the polls show that that mix of policy positions, ours, commands the support of between 40 and 55 of the people in the country. Thats a pretty good opening. Governor johnson it sounds like theres a lot of enthusiasm in that room behind you. Is this about winning or being spoilers . Michael, you set the table. Look, we would not be doing this if there werent the opportunity of winning. But the only chance of winning is to be in the president ial debates and to be in the president ial debates, youve got to be in the polls. Look, put us in the polls. I think that by putting us in the polls there will be attention drawn to what it is that were saying, and you know what if, if that happens anything is possible. Governor weld, you know critics will say at one end theyre two former republicans, all theyre going do is pull from trump and theyre going to get hillary elected, others say if youre successful what youll do is throw this to the house of representatives and get trump elected. You would respond how . I would never use the word spoiler. Im very comfortable with where we are. Were going to speak truth to power and we are going to speak truth and we you dont have to trim or modify our positions. If we wind up nudging the democrats toward the right on Economic Issues and nudging republicans to the left on social issues, i think we will have done the country a really big favor, maybe in a National Consensus that does not appear to exist at the moment. Governor johnson, youve seen the maps and everybody likes to play Electoral College mathematics in this campaign. Are there states where gary johnson, and bill weld, should you both win nominations on sunday could actually capture Electoral College states . I think anything is possible michael, given just how divisive the two major parties are right now. Clinton and trump, back to just the notion that most people are libertarian, this is an unbelievable opportunity to move america in a direction that really they actually desire. 50 of americans right now registering to vote are registering as independents. Where is their representation . Its not from the democrats. Its not from the republicans. Its somewhere in the middle. Were going to be the only party on the ballot in all 50 states. Really, theres a legitimacy to having our name in these polls right now given the climate, and the climate has never been seen before. This is unbelievable. I cant believe this is whats happening in america today. Governor johnson, if you get 15 and you are standing on that stage with donald trump and with Hillary Clinton, whats the message you most wish to deliver . Look, were all about small government smaller government. Government tries do too much. It taxes too much. At the end of the day, if it taxes too much thats money out of my pocket that i could be spending on my life. And when it comes to civil liberties, people should be able to make their own choices in their own lives as long as those choices dont put others in harms way, and these military interventions, is the world safer today . Im going to argue that its not and that that that that policy, the military policy is being carried out by the president and the military as opposed to congress. Lets get congress involved in declaring war if you will, declaring what we should be doing militarily. Weve got 69 treaties with other countries that were going to have to come to the defense of their boarders. These were not treaties that were passed by congress. This was executive the president of the United States doing all of this in conjunction with the military, involve congress. Gary johnson, bill weld, i hope you get in the surveys. I would love to see the left and the right have to defend themselves against nuanced, independent thinking. Good luck to both of you. Thank you. Having heard from governor johnson and governor weld, lets learn more about this libertarian moment in the sun. Joining me now, two libertarian editors in chief. Matt welch. Theres a lot of reasoning going on here, guys. Matt, you heard my conversation with the presumed candidates. Let me ask you is bill weld libertarian enough . Its going to be an interesting question to find out here in the next couple of days. He wasnt nominated. He was suggested because they vote differently, separately, for Vice President than they do president so his suggested hat in the ring from governor johnson was treated with some skepticism definitely in this room which ive seen and heard talking to people, seen as a liberal republican governor who has a track record that includes flirting with the Libertarian Party in new york in 2006 and then backing out of it and some other things so he might not be libertarian enough. Well see. Theres an element of pragmatism here. He has name recognition. Libertarian polltations have not had over the years. Are libertarian, wouldnt they would have 3 4 of a loaf and perhaps win than no loaf at all . Who knows . Theyre willing to starve themselves to death and we all need to lose a few pounds. What the hell. To me whats fascinating is with a johnson weld ticket, the Libertarian Party the province of gold goin bugs and private sidewalk people and weird extreme stuff, theyre in the mainstream of america and gary johnson was talking about this. Its like when you talk about we dont want to go overseas and bomb countries, we want to have abortion rights, we want to have drug regulation, all sorts of stuff, like the Libertarian Party right now in the current politic context is at the dead center of america where theres 2 3 of people who are libertarian. Theyre socially liberal and fiscally conservative. These guys can bring that to an National Audience in a way that has never happened before in american politics. I started talking about i like the matt and i coined the term the libertarian moment. Its now the libertarian momentum because what will happen ultimately is that these guys are not going to be the next president and Vice President of the u. S. But these two parties are going to take stuff from the libertarian platform and then coopting it into their establishment. Matt, how does the buzz in orlando compare to, say, the ron paul and the rand paul moments of the past, because i think when americans think of libertarian standard bearers they think of that father son duo. Sure. Ron paul is still the most beloved politician among libertarian members according to polling but these are the activists. These are 1,000 people from across the country, 50 states, who have gotten Ballot Access. So theyve been working in the trenches for a super long time and what theyre noticing is theyve never seen so many people interested in what theyre talking about right now. Theres 250 Media Credentials here and there was maybe 20 last time. Were talking about this on cnn and we werent talking about this on cnn four years ago, i guarantee you that. Theres a feeling of water shed interest and potential here with two candidates who are not only superunpopular including with their own tribes but theyre unusually status for their own tribes. Hillary clinton is more libertarian than barack obama and donald trump, who knows what he is, but its not been lessen control of government. These are people who prefer choice over control. Americans generally tend in that direction and the two Major Party Candidates are so antithat that its an historic tune here. Nick, not knowing who hillary picks as a vp, nor who trump picks as a vp running mate neither could equal the executive experience that the libertarians will have with johnson and weld with two term governors. Absolutely. Youre talking about 16 years of executive experience and these were guys who were moderate republicans back in the 90s when that was possible. What were looking at in the Libertarian Party is something that is very different and its kind towards the center of a Great American tradition of saying, you know what, i love free minds and i love free markets. I want to be in charge of the decisions that matter most to my life. Thats what these guys are about and its a message that is long overdue. I was going to say michael when you left the Republican Party, thats the direction you were going in. Thats where these guys are and hopefully theyll be able to head a discussion towards that whether it happens in the lp or republican or Democratic Party it doesnt matter to me, its this question of where are we going, towards more choice and more individual freedom or hillary and trump. Matt and nick, i think youre about to have a moment. Enjoy it. Thank you. Coming up, pat buchanan is now calling gop nominee donald trump the great white hope given the 2016 demographics how can that possibly be a good thing. It takes a lot of work. 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Stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. Ask your doctor about viagra single packs. Disenfranchisement of the white middle class has been a steady theme throughout this campaign. Is there a way to fix it . In a new column titled the great white hope pat buchanan writes middle aged whites are four times as likely as middle aged blacks to try to kill themselves and their physical health is failing which they suffer rising levels of physical pain, emotional stress and mental depression which helps explain the alcohol and drug addiction. Joining me now is pat buchanan. What is the social disaster that you see right now for white Middle America . Partly what you described there. I read that New York Times story and was astonished by it that this is the only group of middle class white folks and i gather working class white as well for whom the mortality rate is rising in middle age. In my view theres a number of reasons for it. One is the economy. Youve seen the real wages have been flat, of course, and tremendous numbers of people even though unemployment is low have dropped out of the labor force. I think cultural theyre under assault. The phrase angry white male is one of the few slurs that can be used today. Let me use something that Merle Haggard died recently have had a line from okie from ma skoegy, said are the good times really over for good . And i think for the White American middle class they feel the good times are over for good and they look to donald trump the way that africanamericans looked to barack obama, with hope. When you say theyre under cultural assault, as i read your piece i thought the w. A. S. P. S probably thought the same thing families like mer and smerconish and grovich, my forefathers, were coming to this country at the turn of the last century. Some of my an sesers were were under assault and they rose up and came into their own and they came into the middle class. I dont think the w. A. S. P. Really to their credit they built america in the 18th century but i dont recall them being under cultural assault. You refer to donald trump as the great white hope and indeed you said so just a moment ago. Are you helping or hurting him when you cast his campaign in those terms . Well, i think that i just took that term from jess willard in 1915, a play in 1970 as welling the great white hope and its just a term but what is very important is what it indicates. The largest turnout ever has taken place in the republican primaries, and enormously the votes for donald trump had been white votes, working class votes, middle class votes, people driven by nationalism and popularism who have never come out before, and i think we have to explain that and understand it and i make the best effort i can do to do that and i think to have the Political Correctness line thrown at you on every line you use in the column, i dont think is helpful. Isnt donald trump stirring that base by pointing in the direction of the others and laying off the blame on them for whats going on among this core constituency . I dont agree with that. He says the folks coming across the southern boarder are mexican folks coming across illegally. Hes referring to them. Hes going to build the wall. I understand that and people take that as antimexican where some of us take it as trying to preserve the character and laws of the United States of america which are under assault. When you talk about the economic problems of those that you write about, up say its largely attributable to illegal immigration and you say the effect of globalization. I think its probably technology and globalization not so much people who are coming illegally to do jobs that frankly Many Americans dont want do and arent willing to do. Michael, if you read i believe i said in the column that i not only referred to legals but illegals excuse me, i include legals there and the point is, if you add, say, 40 million, or 50 million folks in the United States as we have since 1965 and a million more illegal every year, thats a huge inc