Border. Thats just unjust. Thats unbiblical. Thats unamerican. Well go live to the Mexican Border with the democrat leading a fathers day march for families. And cult of personality . President trump lavishes praise on dictator kim jongun. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same. As one of his biggest republican critics say his party lives in fear of trump. Not a great place for anybody to end up with a cultlike situation. Has loyalty to the President Trumped principle . Hello, im jake tapper in washington, where the state of our union is learning about another meeting between a Russian National and a member of the trump team. Trump associate, roger stone, now tells the Washington Post that in may 2016 he met with a Russian National who he says was offering dirt on Hillary Clinton in exchange for 2 million. Stone says he rejected the offer. The meeting was arranged by another member of the trump campaign, michael caputo, who followed up with stone in these Text Messages obtained by the Washington Post. Caputo asked stone, how crazy is the russian . Stone answers, wants big money for the info. Waste of time. The russian way, caputo replies. Anything at all interesting . No, says stone. The revelation follows denials by stone that he had ever met with any russians during the campaign. Ive never been to russia. I didnt talk to anybody who was identifiably russian during the twoyear run up to this campaign. Im not sure i did previously, either. I very definitely cant think of anybody who might have been a russian without my knowledge. No, i think its a canard. Stone and caputo now claim they had forgotten about the meeting but their memories were refreshed after being shown the Text Messages. Caputos lawyer sent a letter to congress to update the testimony he gave last summer in which he did not reveal the meeting. But stone and caputo are this morning leveling accusations of their own. They say the man they met with was a fbi inform ability. The Russian National has also used the name henry oknonski, and claimed to have been an informant, though he told the Washington Post he was not acting on behalf of the fbi when he met with stone. And that he stopped working with the fbi in 2013. The fbi did not comment to the post. This latest twist comes as President Trumps former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is currently behind bars, and trumps longtime fixer, michael cohen, is reportedly telling friends he expects to be arrested soon. The pressure building on both to cooperate with the special counsel and prosecutors. Now President Trumps lawyer, rudy guiliani, is racing the specter of, quote, cleaning up the aftermath of the Mueller Probe by using president ial pardons. Joining me now is President Trumps attorney, rudy guiliani. Mr. Mayor, happy fathers day. Thanks so much for joining us. Same to you. Lets start with that breaking news from the post. Roger stone met with a Russian National to learn damaging information about Hillary Clinton in 2016. Was President Trump aware of this meeting . I doubt it. I certainly didnt know about it. Its news to me. I just read it here in the Washington Post. It seems to me, however, whatever the recollection, differing recollections about this, it sort of gets resolved with the fact that stone did nothing about it. Came to the conclusion, according to the post it was a paste of time. He and greenberg came to the conclusion it was a waste of time. So i cant imagine anything got back to the then president ial candidate that was of any substance. If he had concluded it was a waste of time. I guess the weird thing about all of this is we keep learning about these meetings that members of the trump team had with Russian Nationals that the tr trump team had not disclosed or lied about before, whether its the trump tower meeting with Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner or george pap dap allows meeting. It makes people wonder about why the lies or misrepresentations if nothing bad or untoward happened. The earlier meeting, know, i dont want to go back to, because i think thathen kind of expla and overexplained. However, this one i can see why stone might not have focused on it, because the guy had nothing to offer. The guy was doing everything he could to disguise who he was. You read off a couple ofes that he had. Most extraordinary thing is on some document he described himself as an informant. Every informant i ever had tried to keep that secret. You dont, like, say, oh im an informant, i can come to the United States. So sounds like a very strange guy. Was he an fbi informant or not . We know from the from the probe by the Inspector General, the fbi at the highest levels here were doing very, very unorthodox things, if not out and out illegal and unethical. So would they be using a guy like this . I doubt it, because you dont just say youre an informant. So you dont buy the idea this was necessarily a sting, the way that stone and caputo are suggesting. Oh, how do i know . I mean, i would not discount it. The report gives you all sorts of interesting leads to other possible, unorthodox investigations. And i think im being kind by saying unorthodox. But, no, i cant say its connected to that. But i i believe that the Mueller Investigation should be investigated not because necessarily of mueller, but because of its genesis in this very, very now completely almost illegal and unethical probe, this russian probe, that began with peter strohs in charge. So youre calling for a special counsel to investigate the special counsel . Not so unorthodox. Its happened. No, im saying the Justice Department should do it. Im not really saying the special counsel. Im saying what led up to the special counsel. I dont think mueller and his people need to be investigated, unless something comes out of that. Remember, youve got a bunch of odd things that led to the appointment of bob, which is first, we have this russian probe that looks like it was rooted in theyre turning around people investigating trump, investigati investigating hillary, who i think completely screwed it up, according to the horowitz report. And horowitz concludes ultimately no bias, but almost everything was done wrong. Second, that then goes into the russian probe, which they make a priority. Right. That one they have not made a conclusion about bias yet. Because they havent investigated it yet. Right. I think the Inspector General is begging to investigate it. Hes saying, let me investigate it, because we can find out the eventual Mueller Investigation, including its being premised on comeys illegally leaked memo. I just said a bunch of illegal things. That usually leads a court to say the thing is tainted. So they may come out with a lot of problems if they dont get this resolved right now. Just to be clear, Inspector General horowitz did not conclude that comey had broken the law. Yeah. But i want to move on to President Trumps former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, who is now in jail, awaiting trial on 25 criminal charges, including allegedly witness tampering. President trump responded to this on twitter, quote, wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who has represented ronald reagan, bob dole, and many other top political people in campaigns. Didnt know manafort was the head of the mob. Obviously joking there. What about comey and crooked hillary. Very unfair. The president has used similar language before, when talking about pardons and commutations, such as for alice johnson, scooter libby. You floated the idea of pardons a couple days ago. If manafort is convicted, will President Trump pardon him . I guess i should clarify this, once and for all. I think i have. The president has issued no pardons in this investigation. The president is not going to issue parns in this investigation. And my advice to him, you know, as long as im his lawyer, is not to do it. Because it would just cloud what is becoming now a very clear picture of an extremely unfair investigation with no criminality involved of any kind. I want that to come out loud and clear and not get clouded by anybody being fired or pardoned. When its over, hey, hes the president of the United States. He retains his pardon power. Nobody is taking that away from him. He can pardon, in his judgment, based on the Justice Department, counsels office. Not me. Im out of it. Right. And i shouldnt be involved in that ocess, because im probably too rooted in his defense. But i dont want to i couldnt, and i dont want to take any purgatives away from him. Sure. Obviously he has that power in the constitution. Let me ask you, how do you respond to critics who say you di it on tv, you discussing it with the new york daily news, President Trump tweeting, that youre sending a signal to defendants in a criminal prosecution that a pardon is out there and might be on its way . This is thedent and you ink that suggesting that signaling, really, dont cooperate with prosecutors, because a pardon is there if you just hold on. Jake, i dont think thats the interpretation. Certainly not intended that way. What it should be, and ill tell you what i clearly mean. What i mean is, youre not going to get a pardon, just because youre involved in this investigation. You probably have a higher burden if youre involved in this investigation as compared to the others who get pardons. But you certainly are not excluded from it. If, in fact, the president and his advisers, not me, come to the conclusion that youve been treated unfairly. And that would be wrong to do that. And really, nobody else can exercise the pardon power but the president. People can recommend, hes got to make the decision. And in the scope of pardons, its true, these would not be that unusual. These political investigations, as you know, jake, going back to nixon, ford, reagan, carter reagan, rather. Even bush. And clinton. These pardons happen in these political investigations. That doesnt mean theyre going to happen here. Doesnt mean anybody should rely on it. Please, listen to what im saying and the president big signal is nobody has been pardoned yet. If youre going to do it, this is probably the time to do it, to cut it off. There is nothing to cut off. Right. But there is a lot of unfairness out there. We dont know yet the full scope of it. The horowitz report has given us a little of it. These guys saying that trump should be defeated, right, right, right, we should do everything we can. We should take action to stop him. Thats very unusual stuff, fbi agents taking bribes in exchange for information. Five, at least. So right. What do you mean what bribes are you talking about . Im talking about that part of the report i think its the fifth chapter, in which they talk about reporters taking them to baseball games and stuff . Baseball games, vacations and other things of value. In exchange for confidential information. It doesnt about the investigation. It doesnt say that, though. It says they found out that some reporters had done some things, and theyre going to investigate further. It doesnt say bribes, it doesnt say in exchange for information. Yes, it does. In exchange for information. It doesnt say bribes. Youre correct. But it does say, in an apparent violation of federal statutes and regulations. The federal statute okay, could be gratuity. But it would lead to the firing of any other fbi agent, and possibly the prosecution. I want to jump ahead to that. But thats why the investigation is so important. I want to ask you about the comment that President Trump made the other day, the team has already acknowledged that the statement that trump gave about that meeting at trump tower with russian Government Official who had promised dirt on Hillary Clinton, that that original explanation was false. That it was misleading. The president was asked about this on friday. Take a listen. Lets not talk about it. You know what that is . Thats irrelevant. Its a statement to the new york times. The phony, failing, new york times. To cle up. Wait a minute. Its not a statement to a high tribunal of judges. Thats a statement to the phony new york times. Now obviously its not illegal, mayor guiliani, to lie to the American People, to lie to the press. But isnt it wrong to lie, no matter what . No matter who youre lying to . Of course its wrong to lie. It breaks one of the commandments, i think. However, the president s distinction is a correct one. Lie is a heck of a conclusion. I mean, its one you worry about with prosecutors and perjury. But the reality is, in a situation like this, there are going to be a lot of differing recollections and a lot of corrections are going to be necessary. Thats why you dont want to go under oath until everything is settled and youre sure of your recollection. Im actually confused myself about that meeting. First of all, i dont think she was a Government Official, the woman who profited no, but she had been when the email was sent to donald trump jr. , he was told she was a russian lawyer. Russian government lawyer. Well, government lawyer. I just thought a a lawyer like im an American Lawyer but not a government lawyer. But okay. In any event, i dont know if she was described clearly as a russian official or just a russian lawyer. It led to nothing. It led to no information. Yeah. Just like the thing with stone led to no information. So all these things are kind of dry holes. All right. I want to ask you one more thing, sir, before you go and go celebrate fathers day. You said something yesterday about the agents and investigators working on the russian probe that raised a lot of eyebrows. Lets play some of that sound. Instead of investigating President Trump, they should go to bellevue whack adoodles hillary, whats going to happen i need a psychiatrist talking about prosecutors and fbi agents, saying theyre whackadoodles and psychiatric hospital. That was nice. There were a lot of people shocked and disappointed to hear you attacking prosecutors and fbi agents. Well, im sorry. I had to put prosecutors and not fbi agents but other Law Enforcement in jail when i was a prosecutor. Never shrunk from that responsibility. Some of them are unfair. Some of them are unethical. The guys who were taking vacations and tickets and they should be prosecuted. And the ones i was talking about were the instances where people were described as crying when hillary lost. I said if youre an fbi agent or prosecutor thats crying and you work for me, im sorry, i would send you for a mental evaluation. And you shouldnt be working on a case where you have such a severe bias. And excuse me if i think that doesnt affect your judgment. But you dont agree with the people who say that youve gone beyond zealous advocacy into undermining federal law . No, just the opposite. If you fail to recognize the crimes, unethical behavior of federal Law Enforcement officials, you are undermining our system of justice. If you call them out, and you do something about it, which the Justice Department hasnt done yet but has to, then you are reaffirming that no one is above the law, and thats all we want here. We want we want the Mueller Probe to be investigated the way the Trump Administration has been investigated, and we would like to see a report with the conclusions, and well find out then, is it as bad as some people think, or is it what i think, or is it nothing . Mr. Mayor, happy fathers day. Thank you very much. Coming up, 200,000 children taken from their parents and guardians at the border. Present trump says he hates it. Whats being done to change it, if anything . Were going to go live to the border with a man challenging ted cruz for his tenancy. Dave orourke joins us. s why yd someone behind you. Not just a card. An entire support system. Whether visiting the airport lounge to catch up on whats really important. Or even using those hardearned points to squeeze in a Little Family time. No one has your back like american express. So no matter where youre going. Were right there with you. The powerful backing of american express. Dont do business without it. 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