Happened. It seems dubious that the Russian Military, in other words, would want to take down a major passenger plane. Certainly with not the intent of taking it down. Again, we simply dont know who brought this down. Im also here with lieu dtenant colonel rick francona. Just in terms of kants, we have not seen separatists heretofor, they have brought down at least one transport plane, but they were not flying at 33,000 feet. Yeah, this would require, as we were talking about, a more sophisticated system. Talking about, you know, hitting it inadvertently, it would be very difficult for that to happen. Generally once youre locked onto the target, it goes to that target. And if it veers off that target and is no longer being guided, they selfdestruct. But when youre targeting a plane at that altitude, are you
clear on exactly what kind of a plane it is . No, its a return on your radar. Right. It will be a certain size, you can estimate the size of the aircraft. You may have other sensors that tell you what it is. But, you know, once youre getting Radar Returns and you engage the weapon, it just follows the radar path right up to the aircraft. So bob baers earlier point that this is all trackable, that we will soon know where this missile, if that, in fact, is what it was was fired from, do you believe that . If we have the right sensors in the right place at the right time, yes. If you were monitoring. If you were looking for it, the Radar Signals can be intercepted. You can analyze those after the fact. Can you even sometimes detect the launch of the missile. But your sensors have to be aimed at that spot at that time. And do we know if Ukrainian Government, which, i mean, their military capabilities have come under a huge amount of questions over the last couple of months. Although they have improved lately. Whether they would have the capabilities of monitoring that area . The Ukrainian Armed forces would be able to detect the radars. Thats very easy to do. They should be able to, whether one believes them or not, but they should be able to identify where this missile was fired from . They should not only be able to do that, what kind of radar it was, there would be multiple Radar Signals. There would be a search radar. There would be an acquisition radar, a guidance radar. So they should be able to determine all that. If they have that information, that surely indicates a launch of a weapon and that this was a shootdown. Absent that, we dont know. Was this an onboard explosion . Was it hit with something . Theres questions also about command and control of a device like that over who exactly would make such a call to actually fire that kind of a weapon, how organized it is. The Russian Air Defense, when they move, theyre all networked together. And someone is in charge. Now, if this is a division asset, they would make that decision. If they were provided to the separatists and i think that would be a remote possibility, you know, the systems are selfcontained. Once youve got the you know, the radar system and the Missile System and youve got it up and running someone locally can do it. Yes. Its not a centralized command. It would not have to be controlled, say, at a Filter Center up in the chain of command. But again, you believe the likelihood that any of these separatist groups that we have seen operating over the last 3 1 2 months in this conflict, that they would have the weaponry capable of bringing down a plane at this altitude . I agree. I think thats exactly right. Hitting something at 33,000 feet requires a much more sophisticated capability than a man pads or something that a dissident group would have. Our jim acosta is standing by at the white house. Weve been hearing reports about conversations between russia and the United States. Jim, what are you hearing . Reporter right. Well, we reported earlier this morning, anderson, that President Obama and Vladimir Putin had a phone call earlier this morning to talk about those sanctions that the u. S. Imposed on russia. And it was unclear, according to White House Press secretary josh ernest, as to whether or not President Obama and Vladimir Putin talked about these reports of this plane crash. And now we can confirm, according to the press secretary, that President Putin did note these reports to President Obama near the end of their phone call. So they did talk about it just briefly. Its not clear as to how much they talked about it or what they discussed in terms of covering that bit of news. But they did talk about it. One thing we should also point out, anderson, youve been talking about what are the capabilities of these separatists and what may have caused that plane to come down. We should point out that Senior Administration officials briefing reporters yesterday on a Conference Call about these sanctions that the u. S. Imposed noted that some of the Defense Firms that were being sanctioned were responsible for the
production and im just reading from this of a range of material from small arms to Mortar Shells to surfacetoair missiles to tanks. The Senior Administration officials also noted that on July 14th Ukrainians lost a Transport Jet which was shot down from an altitude of 21,000 feet with a crew on board, and the Senior Administration official noted, anderson, that only very sophisticated Weapons Systems would be able to reach this height. And so this is part of the concern the president was expressing yesterday in the Briefing Room here at the white house when he announced these sanctions is that this flow of arms and fighters from russia and ukraine, thats what the u. S. Is alleging, was further deescalating the crisis in ukraine, and that is why the United States decided to bring forth these sanctions. But the headline, anderson, is that these two president s did talk about this plane crash earlier this morning. Were digging for more details as to exactly what they did discuss, though, anderson. Well come back to you. I want to go to capitol hill where Senator John Mccain is standing by live. Senator mccain, what do you make
of the information that you have heard thus far . Thus far, we really dont know what caused it. But the fact is they were able to, quote, separatists, were able to shoot down an aircraft at 21,000 feet shows that there was capabilities. I do not want to leap to any conclusions because we, as you mentioned, it could be an explosion. It could be all kinds of reasons. But if it was a missile that took this plane down, then it has to be a very sophisticated weapons system. And the ukrainians do not have that capability. So if it is the case, were going to have to act and act in the most stringent fashion including real sanctions, including giving the ukrainians the ability to defend
themselves, which we have not done so far. When you say the ukrainians themselves dont have that system, are you talking about the Ukrainian Government in kiev, or are you talking about ukrainian separatists . The Ukrainian Government in kiev. The separatists you know, i dont know because they are russian, as we know. Theyre not separate, russians and separatists. We all know that. The head of the separatists is a kgb army guy or fsb army guy. Whether they gave them that capability or whether it was a russian capability is really almost a difference without a distinction without a difference. But again, we dont want to jump to conclusions until we have absolute facts of the case. Do you have any information about people on board, if there were any americans on board this flight . Have you been given any kind of a briefing at this point . No, we have not. I just talked to some intel people, and they arent sure yet exactly what happened here. You know, its horrific. I remember back when they shot down a korean airliner and the repercussions that had throughout the world. And this is even worse in many respects. How closely i mean, obviously, you have been watching the situation in Eastern Ukraine very closely over the last 3 1 2 months. I was there really at the height of the crisis several months ago. It did seem for a time sha Vladimir Putin had, at least according to published reports, withdrawn a number of his forces, but it does seem, over the last several weeks or so, that those forces have been rebuilding along the border. And more disturbing than that, theyve shot down several aircraft, as you know, over the last few weeks, including the transport that was as high as 21,000 feet. I think putin was disappointed that he didnt get more support both in Eastern Ukraine, odessa,
other parts of southern
so it was russian equipment that was either moved into Eastern Ukraine or from russia thats helped. Most likely moved into Eastern Ukraine. So they have been doing it. But again, its impossible for me to imagine this thing being, if it is a shootdown, nothing but a tragic mistake on their part from their point of view, much less the humanitarian aspect of it. Right. It would seem that theres no strategic reason or any kind of a reason to bring down for any side to bring down a Passenger Jet. It doesnt serve a strategic goal in any sense. In fact, if if i keep emphasizing if it was a missile that was launched either by russia or the, quote, separatists, which in my view are indivisible, this would have the most profound repercussions. It would open the gates for our assisting finally the
ukrainians, giving them some defensive weapons. The sanctions that would be imposed as a result of that, that would just be the beginning. So i just cannot believe that no one in their right mind would want to shoot down an airliner. Senator john mccain, i appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well continue to consult with you and others on capitol hill. Our Nick Paton Walsh is standing by in london. I understand you have new information youre hearing from nato. Reporter not from nato, but i was speaking to informed individuals who can basically explain to me what kind of capability there is for Tracking Incidents like this. Three possible different ways that are in natos assets. One, a ground radar that they have, but that doesnt reach far enough into ukrainian territory outside. Informed individuals say to be able to track Something Like this happening in ukraine. Other option, there are nato awacs monitoring planes flying over poland and romania to
monitor that area because those nato members feel increasingly threatened because of whats happening. Now, they would not be able to pick up this either. People talk about space satellites, the belief that were monitored by the assets that the u. S. Have in the sky, but my understanding is that Ballistic Missiles are picked up and tracked by that. Thats ground to ground. Thats a scud or an icbm, something pretty enormous. Thats tracked by these satellites. But what i understand is not a surfacetoair missile. So there may be Something Else out there perhaps in the u. S. Military armory which can look at things like this. There may be a radar in play that people arent overly aware about. But according to these informed sources ive spoken to, were pretty sure that the major assets nato have dont have some sort of Magic Rewind Button and look at what happened. The people who do and this is where its going to get particularly interesting or complicated as the blame game begins those who do are the Russian Military. Its their border space, their capabilities. They will know precisely what happened, as im sure the ukrainians will have their own anlt capabilities, too. As this blame game continues, theyll, of course, have their own versions of events that they wish to put out. Its interesting to see that we may not magically in the next few hours have a crystalclear picture from nato as to what they think has happened here, anderson. And Richard Quest whos joining us as well here in new york, i mean, you know, weve been focusing on this as sort of a geopolitical incident. Weve been focusing on this as a military incident. But just as a human tragedy, were talking about 280 passengers, 15 crew members on board this plane. This is a plane that left from amsterdam at 12 15 heading to kuala lumpur. There will be people from All Over The World on board this airline. Not only yes is the short answer. But look at the date. Its mid to late july. This is a Holiday Flight for
people from europe going to kl and then right through the region. Kl being kuala lumpur. And vice versa from europe. This is the typical summer holiday. You have vacation, you have business travelers. Youre going to have a Disaster Rescue operation in kuala lumpur similar to what we saw. Ive just been talking to some pilots in europe this morning. One pilot in particular flying back from moscow this morning was said that there was activity flying over the area, was told, you know, there was activity in the region. There are many pilots that have, for a long time, been extremely concerned about flying over this conflict zone. Because of the dangers. Now, this pilot i spoke to this morning regularly flies across Eastern Ukraine, donetsk on his way to moscow. Not once or twice, frequently. And he says they are all concerned and scared at what they know have been happening. I see in the last couple of moments transarrow, the russian airline, says it will no longer fly over ukrainian. Lufthansa saying it will no longer fly over ukraine. That might be closing the stable door after the horse is bolted. Its clearly been an issue for some time. It of course raises the question now and a question that will be asked by Family Members of those on board this plane is why wasnt that done sooner . Why were planes continuing to fly over such a troubled region, considering that two planes, and one, as senator mccain was pointing out, had been shot down already at 21,000 feet. Thats exactly the point. And we know that the faa had a prohibition against flying over crimea and the black sea for u. S. Carriers. So theres no doubt that this was a known rick of fsk of flyi this eastern part. It shouldnt have been as big a problem as it has been. But were looking at the most
horrific example of that. Miles obrien is joining us from d. C. On the phone. Again, miles, i mean, you know this flight path well. Youre a pilot yourself. And just talk about a little bit about what is happening now behind the scenes not only with Malaysian Airlines but all the various countries in the region in terms of dealing with the Family Members of those on board this flight. Is that for miles . Yeah, miles, youre on the air. Okay. Yeah, my apologies. What i can tell you is this. A Civilian Airliner at Flight Levels generally is going to be flying down corridors in the sky that would make it very clear what it was doing, what its intent was and the fact that it is not a nonfriendly object. So you have to ask a couple of questions. Was there some sort of weather in the region which would have caused this airliner to deviate off of that known flight path
which could have aroused some sort of suspicion that was, as it turns out, wrong suspicion which might have made someone on the ground at the controls of a surfacetoair missile to determine that this was an aircraft with some sort of unfriendly intent. The other question you have to ask yourself is, you know, since april, the u. S. Federal Aviation Administration has prohibited u. S. Carriers from flying anywhere near this region. Because of the concerns of what were just talking about here right now. And you have to ask why an airline crew, why Airline Dispatch would make a conscious decision to fly across a war zone, in essence. Not declare war, but a war zone is what it is. And so was that, frankly, the straightest the shortest distance between two points is a Straight Line that takes you right through that area. And this is probably a fuelsaving, timesaving decision. Well have to see how that plays out as we hear from Malaysian Airlines. The other thing we have to
remember is this horrible unfortunate coincidence that were talking about apparently, malaysian airline, in this case, weve already seen pictures of wreckage on the ground. We will know pretty quickly what happened here. An experienced Aviation Investigator will be able to determine if it blew up from the inside out or outside in. If theres the presence of the kind of fuel that is used for the surfacetoair missiles, rocket fuel, in essence. This will be something that can be found out fairly definitively fairly quickly. I think wel