Your ancestors walked on and now their bones lay beneath. Not for sale. The American History tour continues with a new mexico plow and a new mexico pueblo visit to a Spanish Mission in florida that was aimed at converting native americans to christianity. All sunday at 2 45 eastern here on cspan. James rosen on how the u. S. Government wastes millions of taxpayer dollars on the war on terror. Really the only u. S. Official who became who really try to investigate what happened to all the money that the Uniteds States sent to iraq. There are different estimates. Over 11 billion of the roughly 20 billion in iraqi money that the United States sent back to. Raq was unaccounted for what stewart balance investigators found was that nearly 2 billion in cash, in 100 bills was stolen after it was flown from Andrews Air Force base to baghdad, apparently by powerful iraqis, and was being hidden in a poker in rural lebanon. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern and pacific. Compton, whoand recently retired as White House Correspondent for nbc news. Now more the state of College Athletics. Sports writers, former athletes come and University Officials discuss the pros and cons of the Current System and how things might change if some athletes were paid for their performance. National press club in washington, this is one hour and 15 minutes. Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for joining us at the continuation of our Panel Discussion today organized and sponsored by the big 12 conference. College ftes what its, i should say, occupies a unique position in our culture. The efforts among themselves could be among the biggest athletes in football. Whether they like it or not, they will work hard. One quarterback testified before relationsal labor board that he spent 60 hours a week in Training Camp in summer started, hisseason commitment was 40 to 50 hours a week. It was tough to be a student in light of his allegations as in a plate. Nlrbding of that same hearing. The ruling is currently being appealed by northwestern but the battle lines have been drawn. What is a student athlete and how should he or she be treated in regard to compensation and rights . Try tois afternoon to answer those questions are shed light on some of those issue, a distinguished panel. Christine brennan, a columnist for usa today, commentator for abc news, the cbs news hour, cnn and National Public radio. A sportscaster for cbs and espn, a former professional basketball player and a lawyer. He is president of the National Basketball retired Players Association and a member of the Knight Commission on intercollegiate sports. Lisa love is the former director of athletics at Arizona State university. In 2005, she was inducted into the american volleyball coaches hall of fame and currently teaches a graduate class at the university of louisville called the business of division i college f let experiment atomic dylan is a former rhodes scholar, professional basque ballplayer, and member of congress. He is a fonder of the National Foundation on fitness, sports and nutrition, former core former cochairman of the presence council on ethics and sports. Next is a veteran of the sports world. She serves as the womens Athletic Director at the university of texas. She is also a former board member of the National Association of collegiate marketing administrators. In 2003, she was inducted into that organizations hall of fame. And shea and zinger is the director of athletics at the university of kansas. He is author and researcher and a onetime assistant on bill snyders staff at kansas state, which he started when he was just 23 years old. Lets cut right to the heart of the matter. Should student athlete be paid . Who wants to take that one . Its an easy one. [laughter] out start. Ladies first. Sure to it is great to be with you. Great to be with everyone out there. Absolutely not. In many ways, you can make the case they are receiving a lot of benefits now with college scholarships, which Steve Berkowitz and usa today surveyed a few years ago and valued it at 100,000 a year in terms of coaching, exposure, training, all of the things in addition to receiving a firstclass education at some of the finest universities on earth. Student athletes need to be paid, i understand the argument. Im sure we will go into that over the next hour or so. But for me, a couple of thoughts. I will throw them out there so we can get rolling on this, the no holds barred discussion were planning to have. If we are paying the Football Player, are we paying the field hockey player . If we are not, why not . There is a little law called title ix. We have just begun to see it work its magic. It is really still in its infancy. If you have a daughter or a girl next door, a niece, you know how important that law is. Wait until these little girls are running businesses and name president. We certainly cant ignore that long as we go to some economic model for college efflux that leaves the College Athletics that leaves academics by the door if we go there. My overall feeling on this, jimmy, is the notion of be careful what you wish for. Im not so sure we would like what we create if in fact we start paying athletes and have a whole separate for league separate pro league and lose such a popular piece of our lives, which is college athletes, being on campus, many student athletes who are doing at the right way, who will graduate and get back to the university for the next 50 and 60 years and those communities. Are there problems in College Sports . You bet, but paying college efflux is not the way to solve the problem. I would agree conceptually with christine when she speaks of paying athletes. It just means what you mean by paying. I see the relationship more as benefactor beneficiary. When you look at the amount of dollars that are coming in based on the exploits of the student athlete, should there be some balance in the equities . Absolutely. But are they in the form of salary . Should the whole relationship be in the form of terms, wages, conditions and benefits which in theeem to be more term of employee than beneficiary, then i would say no. We need to take a look at how we can balance those equities without making it a pure employer relationship. There is a lawsuit filed , which is relying on the fair standards labor act and why student athletes under scholarship are not paid minimum wage, which becomes another other workstudy students are paid minimum wage and are able to gain some kind of paycheck. Do believe our i culture in College Sports in the things that we have loved about College Sports are certainly under assault. It is under assault by those who always talk about getting paid. And it has filtered down to young people. I cant tell you how many times i have talked to adolescents and people who are f and want to be college and professional athletes and always talk about this notion of getting paid and do not understand the total value of a scholarship and a grant. Reform will ultimately able to ounce the equities with some type of payment based on the right of likeness, the right to publicity. Also, medical benefits, what number do we put on the medical benefits and hopefully reform will continue those benefits beyond eligibility . Astalk about such things getting an education. If you havent received a degree through your eligibility, some of the schools are moving in the direction of providing those thertunities way beyond exhaustion of your eligibility. Finally, i would like people to fully understand, we talk about full value, scholarship athletes versus nonscholarship students, we are talking about 29 point 4000 in debt is what most debt that mostin are carrying. Scholarship students are carrying nothing. To me, the real value of the education and the scholarship that student athletes have been receiving have not been articulated well enough and have allowed those two assault that particular culture and grab a foothold in the argument. I think that needs to be changed. But in the end, i totally do not agree in the employeremployee relationship and i still believe that benefactorbeneficiary, even though there is a symbiotic relationship, certainly is one that we need to look at strongly and put into context so that we can make a definition as far as what student athletes mean to an institution and vice versa. 20. Three. I will take this one step further. Agree withould not both speakers. I would always stand in line with what you just heard in the penalty for this one. Whatever has to be done to financially maintain a sustainable environment of a uniquely American Culture of amateur sports to universities and all the positive that has been yielded over a century and half century when she became all womenser by adding title ix and multiethnic and the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. The benefit to our success he destined our society is boundless because of paying for someones education because they have a unique talent and making it an inclusive environment. Having been an african having been a coach, having been a senior official at the university of Southern California that works specifically with the olympic sports, and then becoming the director ofthe sports at university of arizona, getting close to football and best of all coaches and making maneuvers therein, what has been cultivated over time is a beautiful marriage, if you will, within unathletic program that cultivates beautiful citizenry for the United States. In addition to everything that has been said, i dont want to be redundant, but we have not done a good enough job of expounding on the benefits that already exist with this rather remarkable and unique american system that i believe at all costs should be sustained. I think by paying athletes, you are creating an unsustainable environment. I dont think there is any doubt about that. You are not going to pay tom and not be able to pay marry. If you think you are, you are naive. You arent going to be able to do it. There is no mary that is going to tolerate that. To make it even wobbly or well continue to invest in these programs, i would raise paying and vote against athletes 10 times over. The issue is not just a genderrelated issue. Pain the Football Player and the best of all player and not paying the tennis player and the rower. They should be paid. Let me explain. If you are going to start over and rebuild College Sports in america, first of all, you may not put it in the university. We are the only nation that has this whale this tail wag and the dog. We have this system that was generating billions of dollars. You would certainly address the equities for the players. When we were teammates in maryland, we got 15 a month in laundry money. So did every other athlete. When i introduced legislation in 1991, iraq guess i created a reform bill and provided for 300 stipend for every athlete. The fact is that i do think you can create equities across the women,or every athlete, men, where they get a basic stipend that allows them to have a life. And i think there is plenty of money in College Sports if you took the dollars that are out there and redistributed them. The fact of the matter is, its just a matter of time before this system grows up. Much going ons so that the system will blowup and we will be sitting there saying should the players receive more. Everybody says they get an education. That i have yet to see one study, one strong study that , 10s me across division i years after they left, what happens to them. I would like to see that. You tell me they get an Education Fair i would like to see what type of life these kids who didnt go into the nba would be. So the question is, yes, i think they deserve equity, paid or not. I dont think they need to be employees. I think it is a way to bring them a piece of the pie. I dont disagree with the of allowing financial to expand to the point where the true cost of the sport. I think weve been on record for a long time of saying thats where we need to be. There were votes on this years ago and because of the unwieldiness of our overall governing body we couldnt get to a consensus. And today were faced with this. But the whole idea of remuneration for someone who is a the age group were talking about, 17 to 23 years old, who often make a decision to go to an institution for various reasons and once we talk to them about the college experience, sports is only a part of it. Theres real College Athletics experience begins in the admissions office. Theyve got to meet some criteria, agree to some benchmarks. Frankly, its a volunteer type of situation. No one is twisting your arm to embark upon what today ncaa and College Division athletics requires. Its not easy and its not for everybody. They come with a gift. They do have to adhere to academic goals and standards and progress toward degree in order to even maintain eligibility. Its not remuneration and its not payforplay. I think the amount of dollars that we generate everybody mixes revenue with sort of free cash flow. What we do with revenue goes back to the experiences of these young people. There are some student athletes that leave college with that. If theyre on a scholarship, they could leave with some debt. Thats why we want delta to be covered by wellresourced institutions if they can. The notion that this is a pay for play activity flies right in the face of what its really about. You go back to the 1950s, Darrell Royal when he got his job at the university of texas in 1957 went to the Athletics Council at texas and says ive got my coaching staff. Now i want one more coach. They said why . He said i want this to be my academic, brain coach. I dont want this coach to know anything about football. His name was ian hewlett. This was in 1957. Daryls answer to the alumni and donors, he said it does me absolutely no good to bring these guys into this College Setting and not have them advance to a degree. What really matters to me is that they finish with a degree. How many years later, were talking with that same question. Shane . I guess i have the benefit of going last and agreeing with everyone. At least in part with each. If not all, with some. I would position myself somewhere between the two ends. One is saying that i in reflecting on the last panel who at the very least was very entertaining. I know if we can live up to that. But i think they concluded with making comments about how we seem to be focused on the 1 06 the student athlete who brings a lot of talent to the table and matriculates to the nba and the nfl, etc. And we sort of ignoring the 99 of the others. Now, having said that, i will defer to my elders and say ive always heard about laundry money and always thought we should have Something Like that. Im not sure why it ended back then. But we have young men and women who could use a little more to function around our campuses and in our college towns. Having said that, i think weve lost sight of, theres thousands upon thousands of young boys and girls out there dont get to play at the bcs level and would give their left arm to have the privilege of doing what our young people do on our College Campuses. Im somewhere between everyone. I believe in the word equities was used previously an i think that was a very good term. At the same time, i believe that some of the individuals on the Previous Panel were talking about what number do you put on our current full rides, the i heard 60, 70, 80,000 by the time you factor in and chris is the expert everything from gear to medical, to travel, everything we do to compensate our youth with. But im sure well flesh all these 30eu7b9s out as we go along. I think that leads to the next question, which is what is the cost of attendance . How do we quantify what a student athlete should get . We know what they get now. At kansas im sure you could tell me what that is. But what should that figure be . What should it include and what should it not include . Since tom brought up the 15 laundry money. Did he borrow some from you . Huh . Did he borrow some money from you . No. It went from everything from buying a record to going on a date once a month to those of us who didnt have any other resource. One of the things we need to focus on when we talk about full cost of attendance and subsidizing, we have to talk about need. So many times we think across the board, but there are athletes, student athletes who dont have that need, the demonstrated need for those dollars, bit because they come from a family of means or theyve had other types of means. But in the end, i think it is being a part of the university community, being on a level that makes you feel like youre a part of this community, as i said, whether its being able to buy a tape, being able to go to the movies, being able to do something that the average student is capable of doing, and i think that we lose sight of the fact that its not just about, you know, when people make the argument, paying for, you know, the services rendered. This is about making you feel as though youre part of the university instead of feeling as though youre isolated and something different. So can i itemize and categorize each and every one of those things . Not necessarily. But its like something the Supreme Court said, you know it when you see it. Right. And you understand it. But going back to the situation where you have administrations and other of institutions speak of the instability of putti