Craig i wrote about his 16 years after the presidency. Theres a lot of great books about the last years of president s. William manchester of course wrote death of a president. No one had ever done a book on the reagan post presidency, and its an idea that came from my younger son, mitchell, who was researching on a previous book i did about reagan. I had all these binders in the kitchen. His job was to highlight every time his name was mentioned. He was 11 at the time. He asked, dad, has anyone ever written a book about reagan after he was president . That was about five years ago, and the birth of last act. Brian was the most important moment in this book . Craig well, i interviewed dr. Roger peele, the head of the psychiatric unit at Saint Elizabeth hospital. He told me how reagan reached out to him because he wanted to have a private meeting with John Hinckley six months after he tried to kill the president. Reagan had the idea, on his own. He called and dr. Daniel ruby, the white house position, and he reached out to dr. Peele. So, dr. Peele said, let me take it up with his psychiatrist. I think at the time, hinckley had six psychiatrists. To a person, they all said no. Hinckley was the most sociopathic, selfabsorbed patient they had ever had. He would have misinterpreted the visit as vindication. He ended up never meeting him, because of the advice of the psychiatrists. One man told me, at one point, he was talking to reagan and said, it seems like he was talking from the clouds. Later, he found out reagan was talking from air force one. Brian why would he want to do it . Craig it was his christian capacity for forgiveness. This was the man who was the leader of the free world. He met with gorbachev three or four times after the presidency. Gorbachev was also out of power. Gorbachev visited at the ranch. Reagan visited him in moscow. They became friends. It is astonishing, because here they were, and just a couple of years earlier, they had death grips on each other. After the cold war. I think reagan had an infinite capacity for christian forgiveness. Brian you write that hinckley was never cured. Why was he out from time to time from Saint Elizabeth . Craig he petitioned the courts. The courts the further we get , from the assassination, the further we get from his death, the further we get from jim bradys death. Which is interesting, because bradys death was ruled a homicide when he died last year. It was a direct result of hinckley shot, which hit him in the head. But i think that the forces of political correctness, and partially the time that has elapsed favor him getting out more and more. And so the memory is not as , sharp as it used to be. Brian when did you meet Ronald Reagan . Craig in 1978, i was 21 years old, working on a campaign in New Hampshire. Gordon humphrey, he was running against tom mcintyre, the incumbent. Reagan had not yet decided to run, but he was thinking about it. New hampshire was the first primary state. He had to tend the political fire. He walked into the old New Hampshire highway hotel, the Campaign Headquarters going back to the 50s. A Charming Hotel with a couple of restaurants and bars, gone now, torn down, demolished. Reagan walked into the lobby with a couple of aides. The aid quickly disappeared to make phone calls or whatever. I was left alone there with governor reagan for a few minutes. He was there to film a a couple commercials for gordon humphrey. We talked about high school sports, the weather, how and in of us liked the cold and New Hampshire. He did not know me. There was nothing i could do for him, and yet he was utterly and , completely charming. Brian what do you do for living . Besides writing books. Craig thats a good question. [laughter] craig im the head of the Public Affairs company, formed in december 1984. I am proud to say that 31 years later, ive never missed a payroll. My partner died years ago. And now another partner runs the firm, allowing me to pursue my passions, lecturing, teaching. Brian your other books, what were they about . Craig the 1976 book, mrs. Reagan always said this campaign was the most exciting. I wrote the book, reagans revolution in 2005. It got good reviews and so well sold well, and that led to my next book, which was, rendezvous with destiny. Brian i wrote down some of the disconnected things you put in the book. Stanford turned up his nose at the idea of a library. Why . Craig the same way that duke turned down the nixon library. Nixon, obviously, that was a decision to have his library not there. Stanford is liberal. Reagan was conservative. It was kind of a mutual thing, they would kick each others tires, then decide it wasnt going to work. There was private land, offered to donate. He liked the idea. It was halfway between los angeles and santa barbara, where the ranch was. So it would be easy to stop by. Brian it was known Hillary Clinton hated the reagans. How was it known . Craig because of what she said, denouncing the 80s as the decade of greed. Because of her her behavior during the funeral. Bill was really the problem during the week of the general because bill kept pestering everybody and anybody if you that he wanted to speak at the national cathedral. The program had been set years and advance. Adjustments along the way, in the pallbearers. It was always going to be the president of the United States, it was always going to be margaret thatcher. Billy graham was thought to be was going to act to as the conductor of the ceremony but he was too ill at the last, so they got an ordained episcopal priest. Brian there is an unofficial do not admit list of the Reagan White House. They wanted to make sure those people do not get to the funeral. Oliver north was among them. Where was the unofficial list . Craig well, reagan stormed in his diaries about oliver north, claiming he briefed him at camp david about iran contra. Then of course, when north ran for the senate in virginia in 1994, both nancy reagan and another to the unprecedented step of endorsing jim miller, his primary opponent. Normally they would never get involved in primaries, but they did. There was bad blood on the part of the Reagan White House and the reaganites towards north over iran contra. Brian anyone else on the list . Craig i will have to take a moment on that one. [laughter] brian is it an enemy list . Craig no, but its an unofficial list. It is not really an enemies list, it is just a not welcome list. Brian he never spoke at harvard. Why . Craig its anniversary took place during the presidency. He was invited to the commencement, but not presented him with an honorary degree. Give it tomary to all of their commencement speakers. It does not matter if they are president , or whoever, it is perfunctory that they present them with a degree. They wanted him to speak, but no degree. The white house told harvard to go pop off. [laughter] brian you say that there was a difference between the ordinary people of the country and the elites. How do you do you find the elites . You define the elites . Craig its like what the Supreme Court justice said about pornography, its hard to define, but i know when i see it. There is a greater disconnect today than there ever has been. Maybe it started with the reagan funeral. Theres a greater disconnect, today, i think between the American People and their Corporate Leaders and political leaders. I do think that theres a corporate, political elite. The bank bailouts. So many issues with the American People are on one side and the political and governing elites and the corporate elites are on the other. Craig you write in the book about edmund morris, about how Ronald Reagan was mysterious. Your thoughts on this . My thoughts on Ronald Reagan was, it was not so much a but it was ak, necessary period of when he came out. He had recently departed the United States. He was covered in 70 books, which came out within a year of the departure of reagan from the presidency, my problem was to deal with him on the page in a way that would make them different and interesting. Perhaps he was a mysterious person, hard to figure out. For that reason, he was hard to write about. Craig that goes contrary to the scholarship of a lot of other biographers. Lou cannon wrote 5 terrific books. He would never have said Ronald Reagan was mysterious. Marty anderson, myself, we would never have found reagan as mysterious or unknowable. His daughter said it was all just nonsense. He was not unknowable. He and nancy had zones of privacy, and in some ways, the ranch was, other areas, just being on or sometimeson a horse sometimes. He liked to read books. Political tracts, economic tracts. But, this was a man who was open and engaging and had been in the public eye since the 1930s. To say hes unknowable, i think thats a reflection more of the author not working hard enough to discover the individual he is covering rather than an indictment of the individual. Brian how angry were people you know that our reagan fans about the book . Craig very angry. National review devoted a halfdozen articles to tearing it apart. He gets hiss wrong. Back he gets his facts wrong. He goes between first and third person narrative, gets a bunch of facts wrong, creates fictional characters. Hes worse to mrs. Reagan. The idea that he was unknowable emerged. Reagan is beguiled by morris. Morris started meeting with him during the last couple of years of his office, as facilitated by senator hatfield. Because he had written terrific books on Theodore Roosevelt and george washington. So, we talked about and compared reagan to Theodore Roosevelt. Reagan was smitten with that. And so they brought him in and they gave him unfettered access for two years of his ministraiton and into his retirement years in simi valley. Brian seven days after he died. Six days, june 5, 2004. We only knows its the two things made after president reaganwe only know of 62 things named after president reagan. There have been a lot of discussions. We have certainly got a lot of emails. New york city is thinking of naming a highway in the city. Louisiana just named a highway after president reagan. Only 62 things. People say we did a lot, but actually, no. There was a lot of discussion prior to reagans death, but now is the time that i hope everyone at the 50 states will do something significant. Brian thats 11 years ago. How is the project going . Craig its going well. Route 101 is named after him in california. Occasionally, my wife and i will take long drives across the country to get away. We are always surprised to see a bridge or school or some other thing named after Ronald Reagan. His legacy is not forgotten. I think it is important to push back. Dont forget, the new york City Government closed for the death of franklin roosevelt, for the death of john kennedy, robert kennedy, but did not close for the death of Ronald Reagan. Brian why not . Craig it betrays a political bias. Theres no other reason why, really. Brian that did you do this book . Craig i tried to construct a story line. I had a big white grease board. I constructed narrative with titles and subtitles, and it all kind of falls into place. I wrote in the book as many as a halfdozen times, for news reports, then second, based on a library chair, then third, based on firsthand interviews, fourth, based on other documents based on other sources. Orsually write a book four five or six times. I do not write a book once. I waited for five or six times and keep going back and filling it with interesting and notes and things like that. Brian in the back of the book, in the notes, there are interviews with several people, including fred ryan and a gentle man named jim holy . Craig yes. Brian he seems to get a lot of attention in this book, why . Craig my books, some historians write from 10,000 feet. I write from ground level. I dont just interview jim baker and ed neese. And the people appear. I interview the people who were, you know, who were actually doing the daytoday work and kind of unsung heroes. Stories and unsung i find with all of my books it has worked very well to write from ground level. People have commented, my books have a feel that makes the reader feel like they are there. Brian what did jim holy tell you that we have never heard . Craig he told me all about the funeral, the turnout at simi, california. He talked about the backroom machinations at the funeral home. The process of transporting reagan in. It was very important to getting me background information, in terms of california. One of the funny stories he told me was about how reagan and the entourage had flown after going to washington, and then back to simi valley at sundown, and how he and some friends boarded air force one. There were maybe a halfdozen people on board, and they spent the whole time regaling each other with old reagan stories. They knocked back a few drinks and begin a flying Halfway House of former Reagan White House employees. Brian isnt detail on that 128,000 . Detail on that one 28,000 . Craig it wasnt a 747. It was in service for president reagan until the end of his administration when the 747 was unveiled. And so, it was on the market and fred was able to raise the money and from ae pickens lot of people to get it. Then, they had to build a huge pavilion out of the reagan library. Brian you say it is the biggest of all president ial libraries. Why . Craig it covers the most Square Footage and gets more people than any other. By far, it gets more people. Which is interesting, because simi valley is kind of off the beaten path, whereas brookline in boston is fairly easy to access. I have been to many president ial libraries. Reagan remains a compelling figure to the American People. It is not just location, beauty, it is about the individual himself. Brian Chris Matthews gave a speech back in october 2013. It relates to something you said in the book, and i want you to have a response. Mr. Matthews the party went on all afternoon. Reagan hardly drink it all, but reagan called for champagne. It is amazing, this guy ordering champagne on afternoon, on a weekday. They all had champagne and reagan offers up a big toast, overthetop. If i had a ticket to heaven, and you did not go, give away mine and we would go to held together. [laughter] mr. Matthews and they were great friends together despite being political rivals. We could be friends in a room together, but afterwards we are political rivals. Brian is this true . Craig theres a lot of mythology. If you want bipartisan cooperation, look at bill clinton and Newt Gingrich. There was with the 100 fourth congress, truly a lot of bipartisan cooperation. Clinton did not want to, but he did it for political survival and convenience. Brian how did this get started . Craig like anything. Repeated often enough. Two irishmen, one is the president and the other is from congress. It fills the time and the void, but its not true. He did not collaborate that much with tip oneill. He signed this bill, and cant find against it. Gingrich fight against it. Reagan ahead broken his pledge on taxes and agreed to spending cuts. He signed it and gingrich fought against it, there was a real insurrection among the reaganites against reagan. It finally passed, and only because of the democratic support. And reagan signed it. The spending cuts never came. Reagan said in his diaries, the fact that the spending cuts never came. He never really did another deal with tip oneill after that. The 1986 Tax Reform Act was done without tip oneill. Brian here he is talking about this relationship. Mr. Reagan i had tip and his wife over for dinner. Then, one day i picked it up and read the paper where he at made a statement about me which was pretty harsh. I called him and said, tipp, i thought we had a relationship, and now i read in the paper that you said this. He said, hey, this is politics. We are buddies, we are friends. Craig i think that goes to my point, thats reagan viewed tip oneill much more skeptically than Chris Matthews would have you believe. Brian how many years did he live after he left the white house . Years. 16 brian who was the closest to. Was he closest to . Craig obviously, nancy. Some of the ranch hands. Fred ryan, a chief of staff. Steve kolo, head of the secret service detail. He saw friends, George Schultz and others. They would come over the century city. He kept an active social life. Brian here is dennis leblanc. The guy who chopped wood with him. Lets watch. [video clip] by 9 00, he would be up. He would go for a ride. From 10 00 to 12 00, they would ride. 1 00, he would go out and cut would or whatever construction we would go through with, would start at 5 30. Depending upon what time of year it was. Brian you said he did not make it to the funeral . Craig could not, was too grief stricken. He had an assigned seat at the committal ceremony at the library. That was the friday after he passed. Mrs. Reagan was sitting, mrs. Reagan had assigned seats. She noticed dennis seat was empty. She tracked him down. He had utterly lost it. He loved to Ronald Reagan. They were very close. He was very forthcoming. A lot of people kind of overlook the relationship. But he spent hours alone with reagan, chopping wood, horseback riding. They rebuilt the ranch together. There was reagan on the roof, and nancy said she was going into town for groceries. Dennis, dont let him on the roof. Because he is 69, 70yearsold. Later, andome back there is ron on the roof patching it. Dennis which read his shoulders. I cant stop him, he says. They were very close. It wasnt like fatherson, it was like older brother, younger brother. Brian what did he tell you that you didnt know . Craig two years after the alzheimers, they were at the ranch. And, they were watching