Me. Mary coming you have written a really terrific book and of the back is says Mary Thompson shows has used the trove of cables to provide a fascinating account of how the policy works from the bottom up. Why did you write to this book quick. Secretary thank you so much for the question. In part admiration was the motive plot to understand what my colleagues do with the key leaks was something that nobody had imagined. So that was the unique opportunity been to see in realtime world beaters who are still in place many of them for someone who had actually been a diplomat to have that experience from which the cables were written to comment and to make sense. How long was your career in Foreign Service . Lets start with that. 1989 by United StatesCommission Agency i come from the Public Diplomacy part with tenures when the agency was folded into the u. S. State department the night continued as a officer with the state department then evolves to into the u. S. Embassies in 2012. But i have to ask you i was teaching a class from Georgian University men theyre going into Foreign Service that want to make a difference. The same thing that motivated my colleagues patriotism a desire to serve my country and experience for cultures, for and languages, to take a deep dive what others think about the United States. And then caught by the mandate of ritual understanding and to those that were working among them to use that. Host explained Public Diplomacy of want to ask you that up front because it is interesting when the organization the United States agency was molded into the state department there was a heavy debate that was very controversial over the question should be brought into the state department some people said absolutely not should be independent to have a greater impact but on the other hand, that it should be in the state department because by bringing it is mildew and the policy process what did you think . The Public Diplomacy is the present culture coladas that work did it either gravitate towards now including social media or writing speeches for ambassadors arranging media interviews or a press conference to be did monitor media and the question was put to bring the best of American Culture to the rest of the road which is a challenge because we have pop culture peabody things in a lot about america and what is best for america as sad opportunity to deepen understanding of American Culture and what that is about five. Of course, we learned more about those four cultures of which we operated in a Mutual Understanding that takes place if all goes as it should if we have an opportunity with those layers of knowledge. Host plays a crucial role to understand society and also it has not bend the traditional role of the state department and but that has focused on so that is crucial. Indeed. One of the things that sets them apart is to reach over or across directly to the four republics i really mean that people from all walks of life not just journalists but people who work with ngos are academia increasingly those of nontraditional lines of work to achieve notoriety in the halls of power better influential in their own communities one. Natalie Public Diplomacy that it is imperative not only to do the traditional part, types of diplomacy to explore the boundaries of Public Diplomacy to cultivate the for an audience as well as the traditional context of traditional diplomacy. Host lets turn to your book. You laid out very well in the chapters about the wikileaks cables at a big many people realize the scale and scope of what was covered because while was highlighted and featured was the classified declassified portion and classified as only a small part. There were a number of confidential although surprisingly large number of unclassified cables. So lets start with where were you november 28 in 2010 quick summit dead diplomat in resident based at Tufts University and my job was to talk to aspiring diplomats across new england about what it is like to be at diplomatic types of policies or how to become a Foreign Service officer and what diplomacy means. And everybody aspires to reach small dash to write that telegram and is unlikely to happen again so what this Foreign Policy . Where does the state department hit in . In what is that apparatus behind it and what to expect if you go to a consulate or embassy . What would that look like . Host what was your initial reaction that day when you learned of the wikileaks cables and the fact they were released and what did he think their impact was . To my shock, horror shock, horror, disbelief like all of my colleagues instead of thinking what had i written that might embarrass us over undermine u. S. Foreign policy, what would my name appear on . [laughter] wishing i could sit down with my colleagues to talk about it but to realize as a diplomat and residents i would love to be a part of this conversation but i have a different job at the moment and that will be to answer questions from students and faculty public who are interested in Foreign Service. Host use a the release of these cables was an unprecedented that there were other times historical the with other sources of information. Talk about at and put this into context quick. In this part of the journalistic practice to use the information with one example defense is that one end but as julienne astonishes back in the news recently Julian Asange had a interesting angle really disliked government and research in that there were under handed dealings and somehow publishing best was a radical transparency to prove that all of us for up to no good and in fact, the guardian and the New York Times who had the initial reading of the cables were surprised there were no underhanded dealings by midlevel officers going about sometimes with some interesting approaches or writing style that was nimble and not bureaucratic and honestly making efforts to understand those environments in which they were posted. There was a lot of eloquence that Julian Asange missed because of his own agenda so i do part company that there was a Public Service being performed that somehow there was dirt that would come to light it is interesting but not nefarious. The part that you did mention the guardian and also the New York Times maven writedown of uh were occasionally to be entertaining and very interesting these reactions you have the foreign minister have describing this a time to the secretary of world diplomacy. From what you just described it doesnt sound like it is the same. Is interesting that Edward Snowden was waiting in the wings with another scandal i think leaks will be a part of government life and the which and the multiplicity that we communicate social media treats are all of that is part of politics and understanding how to be adjudicated how to know when something needs to be secret that is very much under debate in the Clinton Emails have reignited a lot of that debate the way in which we classify or declassify cannot continue when needed new way to classify things. Wikileaks cables is not for those who write the cables to decide the classification but it is something that you assume that they would know whether or not would be highly damaging or just damaging or not at all. That officer does not have the inclination of which make a judgment on that. But that higher level classification means more likely leadership would be interested in an unclassified. Host another aspect addressed was the trust broken with foreign diplomats . What was the impact there . Because then the defense secretary robert gates who basically says the have heard the impact of Foreign Policy to describe as a mill town or a game changer. I think those descriptions are significant in the fact is the governments deal with United States because it is in their interest not because they like us or trust us or be they believe we can keep secrets. So the question that comes to my mind was that broken because the others felt because of the release of the damage was done was trust in terms of the confidentiality. There was some damage. I do think she had a point of view that was intentionally of all level of hysteria i dont think it was nine levin of world diplomacy either but wondered the efforts that to place before the New York Times published was to sit down with the state Department Officials to go to the cables to redact of those whose lives could be in peril and the times very willingly engaged in an effort to place over several days before they were released ultimately theres a lot of information that was out there that arguably should not have been but coming from journalism there is a sense of trust that you trust it with the tell you is confidential the have earned that trust i dont think it is in uniquely american problem and keeping secret is a lot harder what does that mean to guarantee somebody it could be kept confidential in the future that people will be less candid so my sense of Human Experience it want to share their views and are willing to go to enormous risk it is unjust the diplomats because they want to their opinions to be out there in as a platform for communication is changing faugh, every cannot guarantee but on the mp bill may be more willing to take the risk that it could get out. One of the reactions i took note that was revered of the Foreign Service and he had a wonderful quotation in archaeology of cover the unknown in diplomacy you cover the known. You have a Silver Lining that was brought out wonderfully in the book that basically you say those leaked cables in a way did diplomats of favor but also putting a spotlight in the window not only on their work but the eloquence of the right team so also a Silver Lining to this occurrence as well. This is a story of them in double officers because theyre the ones that do come and the actual writing. And there were so many Great Stories and one that comes to mind a group of entrylevel officers decides to take a Factfinding Mission to go out in the course of four days and to compile information for and on their way to do this had to go out to get the illegal gold Mining Operation and mercury is dumped in the of water and all the things that go along with the operations the country did not have complete control of the region rather as was happening and put ultimately they did meet but it was the first time in seven years anyone had met with them. This is why rejoined the up for a service to leave the capital behind in the parts of the world better not california or new york. They did need any special skills or highranking people. Had that sense of the venture and curiosity to know the foreign culture. And then to answer what question . So why should we care . And here is what we discovered. That is real up diplomacy to meet. Host talk about the title of the book. Leaked Embassy Cables and americas Foreign Policy disconnect talk about the disconnect and what is the disconnect . Guest particularly in the time. That we look at most deal with 2006 through 2010 it means dont get into bank gauzy that happen 2012. 2006 through 2008 was the last two years of the bush should ministrations then read have the next two years of the Obama Administration and that is an interesting time. So that is an important guideline right there but the bush should ministrations few of how could it not be . In the aftermath to many of the panels in the commissions all looking at americas relations and what went wrong . Not allot the diplomats that served in the middle east with on the ground experience with those commissions because theres a lot of fighting taking place whatd is like to be living post to 9 11 country and i am not sure those voices were heard. Said those were not part of the muslim world with antiamericanism that made it much worse like argentina is a case in point where the Public Opinion ratings were 12 . What happened in argentina had nothing to do with the 11 the embassy had a lot of dancers and ideas but i am not sure. Host that is a recommendation at the end of the book the connectivity between the policy makers in washington and in the field isnt that one of the strains of the various chapters that you do come out with a recommendation . And not idealistic that washington is waiting to hear from that diplomat the Foreign Policy making is as complex as it has ever ban. You have stakeholders everybody from the pta, congress is more interested in for policy with those agencies that local police for the state department. Yes, it isnt likely that those Foreign Service officers will direct Foreign Policy but what i discovered it is an follows a tradition that is unique and sometimes policymakers come under suspicion even though we are just as american to protect the u. S. Constitution, we are seeing as people who have gone over to the other side what it means to support and defend american policy with the mccarthy era or vietnam and i think it is unique in the United States to have this dichotomy he spent too much time overseas the more you know, about foreign culture the less you know, about your own. we have to offer is important and we need a voice. Transportation was more difficult now you can have secure video conferences and that expertise in is being lost. It isnt a partisan issue, there was no watershed moment in now suddenly it is quite the contrary. Syndicate thank you raise an important point every industry shin will have an agenda but what you really underscore is the range and diversity and experience and analysis of those in the field that has something substantial to contribute in that may not necessarily mean there is a revolts but it is important that those considerations are factored into the deliberations and not ignored by whichever administration and what you try to bring out. I will ask about diplomacy because interestingly enough there is also the aspect of the Public Diplomacy area and moments ago in those examples in that cultural diplomacy whether historical talk about that and how Public Diplomacy factored into that. This informative in that regard there was a lot of controversy at the time about what could be accomplished in a country that has wartorn as iraq. The bush demonstration made a point to make iraq the new embassy the largest in the world how lever with the staffing requirements with those officers available that could be effective was very small. And turnover began to be a problem and it was hard to fill the position. Officers wondered is an important to work in haiti or china . I know mandarin. So they said no it is most important that we staffed the embassy in baghdad. So there was a lot of discussion but yet the evidence in the cable suggests that officers willingly and wholeheartedly energetically each to accomplish some impressive things while they were there even without their knowledge of arabic or wrote without the knowledge of the region but the tools that they had been given and being creative and improvising. I think it is one of Public Diplomacys success stories. It is hard to use the word success in the same sentence because things are in the air but the cable suggest a trajectory of officers who answered the call, were loyal and did with the initiation asked asked, search, and accomplished. Host you mention the assistant secretary of state for Educational Cultural Affairs at the time. And it was very striking, his mark on that period. It became the largest in the world and we had other programs as well. My colleagues put on theatrical performances and had standing room only crowds coming and in the programs that were offered in their own language they could relax and enjoy thats an important part of diplomacy its not to win the hearts and minds necessarily or policybased but its definitely about human outreach and cultivating contacts and opening up the stage in which more difficult dialogues could take place once you establish contacting which is one of the rationales of Public Diplomacy i believe. Host you have a wonderful quote in here, many of them but a wonderful quote from the director at the time of the bay of pigs Edward Murrow saying if they want m me in on the crash landings i better be in on the take off. The question that arises and one of the criticisms is that only good coming in is there a hesitancy from the field of only having cables that will tell you what you want to hear, what about the crash landing. They want to acknowledge a failure taken place. Nobody wants the bad news. A good example of that was the visit she was very activist but wasnt always liked by the field and her visit sometimes hit sour notes and her penchant for introducing herself to describe the Foreign Policy was offputting particularly the nonchristian audiences. She tried hard to reach out to women and women in turkey, indonesia, saudi arabia were very different and i